BS and ACV

[rosie_cotton]

I was wondering how many of y'all use the baking soda and apple cider vinegar method? I'd like to try it, so I copied Glebegirl's article, but I'm a bit worried about it drying my hair out. Any suggestions? I already use Coconut oil twice a week, and my hair looks healthy. I've been washing with Infusium 23's moisture-ology twice a week, and I have liked it, but thought it might be time to go with something more gentle and natural. Help?

[Katze]

I have tried it, and find it OK, but Rhassoul gives similar results and is much easier to use. It didn't seem to dry my hair any more than Rhassoul, or WO, do.

I've been shampoo free (with one mistake last week!) since November, but had already been washing with Rhassoul since Dec. 2005 - on and off. The problem with Rhassoul is that it can dry out your hair - I guess baking soda is meant to not do this? But if I use Rhassoul, then oil, I have no problems now.

Personally I think the idea is great, but it's too much hassle for me.

[heidi w.]

I smell a misunderstanding brewing.

Perhaps I can help prevent that.

Given the title of this post is BS and ACV, and given also the original poster’s query, I suspect someone might be thinking that both BS and ACV are clarifying applications to the hair.

Well, in a manner yes, and in a manner no.

Here’s the difference:
Baking Soda (BS) hair washes indeed clarify the hair. That is it addresses buildup, what has had an opportunity to dry on the hair strands, and strips everything completely off of hair leaving it completely bare naked of any moisture, product, dirt, sebum, etc.

Apple Cider Vinegar Rinse (ACV) [or any vinegar rinse such as with white vinegar, or lemon rinse] only removes residual product that might be on hair in that specific hair wash. In other words, once the hair has dried with said product, once the hair has buildup, this type of rinse will not remove it. It simply won’t work, and that is not its use.

The other area that leads me to brewing misunderstanding is the question of either procedure leaving hair dry.

Any clarify hair wash, if not immediately followed by a good conditioning session, will leave the hair dry because that is the nature of any clarify hair wash, whether home recipe such as Baking Soda or a store bought product. (There are relative few who claim this is not their experience, but for the general Jane’s out there, it is the experience.)

The point of a clarify hair wash is to “strip” the hair (and scalp skin) of anything and everything that’s on it: product (shampoo, conditioner, oil, leave-ins), sebum, dirt, and thus translates that all moisture is removed. So, if one does not follow any kind of clarify hair wash with a good conditioning session, then, yes, the hair will become dry. Clarifying removes stuff off of hair strands, the surface, and does not address the cortex. To address the cortex that is to chelate, same process, same concerns, same rules, just different target zone. Also a different subject.

Therefore, if all one does is clarify hair wash (and not follow with a solid conditioning session) with BS or other clarifying hair wash method, then yes, the hair will be dry. Moreover, the conclusion from such a process is to be yes, the clarify shampoo worked.

In any clarify hair wash session, the only way to avoid hair being dry is to condition the hair well as part and parcel of the entire procedure.

Vinegar and Lemon Rinses
These typically do not leave hair dry. Some complain of issues and therefore prefer to conduct this ‘rinse’ between some kind of shampooing and before conditioning; whereas others, such as myself, prefer to conduct this after both shampooing and (after) conditioning is completed, as the final rinse before a thorough clean water rinse. The reason for conducting such a rinse at all are manifold:

This rinse pH balances the scalp skin since shampoos and conditioners tend to leave the scalp skin more on the alkali end of the pH scale v. center (or neutral). Indeed some scalp skin actually prefers a trace bit of more acidic on the pH scalp (for example, those with itchy scalps might find this helps a little).

It only removes product that remains on from that hair specific hair wash that wasn’t thoroughly rinsed out.

It only removes minerals that the washing water may leave behind in that hair wash only.

Vinegar helps to bind the cuticle meaning to help the cuticle lie closer and tighter together, per the hair’s natural state (assuming no chemical processing).

USE OF A VINEGAR RINSE means it is diluted (such as 3 Tablespoons to 1 cup of water), it is merely applied to the hair and fairly immediately rinsed out, within a minute from application. There is no need to soak the hair, leave it on for a long time, or fail to rinse it out. In fact, if it’s not rinsed out, it will actually leave the hair a bit gummy or tacky feeling. To resolve such a situation, just wash the hair again.

The one additional advantage to an Apple Cider Vinegar rinse specifically is that apple has ‘malic’ acid in it which is beneficial to skin.

Those with dandruff, itchy scalps and such might benefit from some kind of rinse to move the pH to something closer to the acid end of the pH scale. If you don’t understand the pH scale, it’s fruitful to go on the internet and look for a picture of it. Everything organic has a pH: water, soil, skin, plants, food…..human blood, baking soda, bleach….

Under the Recipes section of this board, somewhere in there is a great thread titled ACV Rinse that has an incredibly thorough discussion of the subject and includes my attempt at a summary rather far in, perhaps page 6-8…. It’s a recommended read for those who don’t understand ACV rinse.

In summary, if one clarifies, no matter the product or home recipe used, condition well, or yes, the hair will be dry. If you didn’t condition well enough, it could be a trace dry. Just oil (or some other leave-in) and let buildup occur again.

Hope this helps prevent a misunderstanding,
heidi w.

[Pani_Mniszek]

I bet this is the thread, yes?

--PM

[heidi w.]

Yes, that's the ACV Rinse thread...great thread.....Thanks for finding the link. Not an easy task when so buried.

heidi w.

[Pegasus Marsters]

When I saw BS I thought something other than baking soda>_>

[GlebeGirl]

Originally Posted by heidi w.

I smell a misunderstanding brewing.

Perhaps I can help prevent that.

Given the title of this post is BS and ACV, and given also the original poster’s query, I suspect someone might be thinking that both BS and ACV are clarifying applications to the hair.

I don't know if you've read my article on the Shampoo-Free method or not, but rosie_cotton appears to have and I don't think she misunderstands the nature of it at all. It seems to me that she's talking about using it not as a clarifier, but as an alternative to shampoo and conditioner, which is exactly what it is.

The AVC in this method is used only to restore pH and close the cuticle of the hair after using baking soda to cleanse with.

[meepster]

I tried it, and absolutely hated it; I ended up with dried-out, strawlike hair and a greasy, itchy scalp. Not gentle at all, in my experience. I'd love to get away from shampoo, but this did not work for me.

[going gray]

Very interesting reading, about ACV rinse, but I think I'm going to pass on doing it for now.

[rosie_cotton]

Yes, Glebegirl, that's what I was talking about. I'm so very sorry if I was unclear.

So, I tried it last night and I followed Glebe's directions to the T, and so far I really like it. My hair was perhaps a teency bit dryer, but a bit of coconut oil fixed that. I think the BS really brought out the red in my hair. I'm going to try it several more times, but this method seems like a keeper. I did a deep hair food treatment before I washed withe BS and ACV, and my hair really liked that I think tonight I'll do a CO wash. Thanks for the article, Glebe!

[heidi w.]

For those who might be interested, I do recommend the book Naturally Healthy Hair by Mary Beth Janssen, a licensed cosmotologist who is making huge inroads in the beauty and hair industry for going natural. Although the book does include a big section on styling ideas, and isn't necessarily geared towards longer lengths the likes of which many of us are interested in here at LHC, it is nevertheless a keeper if one is interested in this subject. It's price is reasonable, includes a lot of info on how hair grows and phases, and complete section on scalp skin and hair issues and a plethora of home recipes, including lists of ingredients, both positive and negative (in ingredients lists) and why for each.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

Originally Posted by rosie_cotton

Yes, Glebegirl, that's what I was talking about. I'm so very sorry if I was unclear.

So, I tried it last night and I followed Glebe's directions to the T, and so far I really like it. My hair was perhaps a teency bit dryer, but a bit of coconut oil fixed that. I think the BS really brought out the red in my hair. I'm going to try it several more times, but this method seems like a keeper. I did a deep hair food treatment before I washed withe BS and ACV, and my hair really liked that I think tonight I'll do a CO wash. Thanks for the article, Glebe!

Well, maybe my input will nevertheless help other readers who may be confused as to the difference between the two.

heidi w.

[GlebeGirl]

Originally Posted by rosie_cotton

Yes, Glebegirl, that's what I was talking about. I'm so very sorry if I was unclear.

So, I tried it last night and I followed Glebe's directions to the T, and so far I really like it. My hair was perhaps a teency bit dryer, but a bit of coconut oil fixed that. I think the BS really brought out the red in my hair. I'm going to try it several more times, but this method seems like a keeper. I did a deep hair food treatment before I washed withe BS and ACV, and my hair really liked that I think tonight I'll do a CO wash. Thanks for the article, Glebe!

rosie, you could try using less baking soda, too. I've had great results using only one tablespoon of baking soda to two cups of water, although I didn't have week-old dirty hair when I used that dilution. Often I just use a heaping tablespoon and it seems to work very well.

Good luck! I'm glad you're having success with this method.

[kimo]

I've used the SF method (baking soda as a wash/vinegar as a rinse) for over a year, with little breaks here and there. I'd like to go on the record by saying my hair has never gotten dried out from this method. In fact, I often feel it's a bit heavy or too moist, if there's such a thing. My hair isn't colored or permed, and it's pretty much tough as nails, so I may not be the best spokesperson. However, I love this method.

Plus, it keeps the tub clean!