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AmandaPanda
January 28th, 2007, 05:12 PM
Some of us have found that conditioners without cones can still cause buildup. I think this is due to the waxy ingredients in most conditioners. This post is for those of us whose hair cannot tolerate the waxes.

I was hoping we could list the waxy ingredients that could cause buildup. I know I would like to avoid these. Please PM me or post here if you found something on the list that has a cone or wax or if you find anything to add to the list. Thanks

A list of "waxy" ingredients:

Cetearyl Alcohol also called emulsifying wax

Cetyl Alcohol

Stearyl Alcohol

Stearic Acid

Glycearyl Stearate

Thank you, ktani


Conditioners without waxes and cones:

California Baby Conditioner (not the detangler)
Goth Rosary Conditioner (all)
Herbativa Royal Cream
Morrocco Method (all)
Nature's Baby Products Tangerine Vanilla
Nature's Baby Products Lavender Chamomile
Phyto Phyto 7
Stoneybrook Conditioner Unscented
The Vital Image Hair Therapy Conditioner/Rinse

Ebonygurl00
January 28th, 2007, 06:41 PM
That's really interesting! Maybe that's why some cheapie conditioners, like V05, give me slip. Maybe the wax coats the hair like cones, providing slip without the use cf cones? I have noticed that I get build-up with V05, so that's probably why. Thanks for posting this!

NuclearMosquito
January 28th, 2007, 07:03 PM
My Nature's Gate old formula Herbal condish has vegetable wax listed, and I find it gives great slip, but builds up very quickly. The buildup is easy enough to remove with a normal shampooing, though.

DMARTINEZ
January 28th, 2007, 08:06 PM
Thats true about the NG Original Herbal, but I love it anyway. It does remove
easily with the NG Original Herbal Shampoo :thumbsup: I just LOVE the fragrance
of it. And I really dont think there is that much wax in it. Its not at the top of the
ingred. list if I recall....?


Deb
Ps. FWIW, I think alot of conds. could and can build up. They all leave some type
of deposit on your hair Id say. IMO ;)

NuclearMosquito
January 28th, 2007, 08:42 PM
No, it's not very high in the list, I don't think. And I agree, the smell is just divine. :D

AmandaPanda
January 28th, 2007, 09:35 PM
I guess I'm wondering what exactly in the conditioners could cause a waxy buildup (if there aren't any cones, and nothing states "wax" - just like we know that 'cones doesn't always end in the word -cone). I'm sure certain ingredients will cause faster buildup than others, and I would like to know what these are. I'd rather have some other type of deposit than a waxy one.

I noticed the Nexxus Ensure seems to be building up too easily, and there aren't any cones, and Giovanni Smooth As Silk (no cones) made my hair look weighed down, stringy and coated. It seems like the cone free stuff builds up faster than the products with cones! lol

Maybe I should just stick to Aubrey Organics

DMARTINEZ
January 29th, 2007, 07:35 AM
I think I remember reading that the PEG stuff can cause buildup. You might
check out Paula Begouns website and click on the Ingredients Dictionary. Or google "what ingreds. in conditioners cause buildup?" Im sure the answer is
out there somewhere. Oh Flaxen....where are you? :D

Deb

AmandaPanda
January 31st, 2007, 09:54 AM
Bumping in case anyone has info.
Flaxen! We need your expertise!

Furiana
January 31st, 2007, 10:28 AM
Bumping again, even though it was just bumped! ;) I've been getting this waxy buildup, too, and I'd love to know what to avoid!

HairColoredHair
January 31st, 2007, 05:39 PM
I'm sorry this is a bit off topic, but I've been doing mostly WO for four months now - haven't touched conditioner at all - and I would bet anything a pair of scissors could scrape 'buildup' off my hair.

Not that I'd allow anyone to scrape my hair with a scissors (though, I too, without my glasses, couldn't tell what was going on. :lol: )

Furiana
January 31st, 2007, 06:11 PM
Yeah, I don't really want to scrape my hair either! Especially because the buildup isn't just on my scalp :scared:

AmandaPanda
February 1st, 2007, 05:18 AM
I've been doing mostly WO for four months now - haven't touched conditioner at all - and I would bet anything a pair of scissors could scrape 'buildup' off my hair.

Really? You must have really hard water!

HairColoredHair
February 1st, 2007, 03:23 PM
Really? You must have really hard water!
Slightly, yes, but mostly, it's sebum...


Well, I hope, anyway. :lol:

Furiana
February 9th, 2007, 01:57 PM
So, does anyone know what ingredients make hair waxy?

ktani
February 9th, 2007, 03:01 PM
I bought Ruth Winters Cosmetic Dictionaries, 2 editions so far, to have up to date information a while ago before I joined LHC and began internet researching to the extent I do now.

Cetearyl Alcohol also called emulsifying wax

Cetyl Alcohol

Stearyl Alcohol

Stearic Acid

Glycearyl Stearate

are a few - fatty alcohols and acids tend to be waxy.

Furiana
February 9th, 2007, 03:50 PM
Thanks! :flowers: Now to compare ingredients lists... :wink:

ktani
February 9th, 2007, 04:05 PM
You will find at least one of those I listed in most conditioners but again it is down to percentages.

The one conditioner I recall seeing here that did not contain waxy type ingredients used oil instead, which can also build up.

AmandaPanda
February 9th, 2007, 06:00 PM
I bought Ruth Winters Cosmetic Dictionaries, 2 editions so far, to have up to date information a while ago before I joined LHC and began internet researching to the extent I do now.

Cetearyl Alcohol also called emulsifying wax

Cetyl Alcohol

Stearyl Alcohol

Stearic Acid

Glycearyl Stearate

are a few - fatty alcohols and acids tend to be waxy.

Thanks so much! :rockerdud

HairColoredHair
February 9th, 2007, 06:00 PM
I think we may be overanalyzing that a bit though. Yes, waxes and oils can build up, but they can be quite good for the hair and protective as well. :flowers:

AmandaPanda
February 9th, 2007, 07:05 PM
You will find at least one of those I listed in most conditioners but again it is down to percentages.

Actually, I know of quite a few without them, and I think I'll stick to those.

The one conditioner I recall seeing here that did not contain waxy type ingredients used oil instead, which can also build up.

I think we may be overanalyzing that a bit though. Yes, waxes and oils can build up, but they can be quite good for the hair and protective as well. :flowers:

I'd rather stick to conditioners with oils. The waxes build up way too easily for me. What's the point in using them for protection or anything else when I have to use a clarifying shampoo every other wash to get the greasy film off? It seems to be doing more harm than good (for me anyway). Everyone's hair is different

ktani
February 9th, 2007, 07:45 PM
AmandaPanda

I agree completely. However, everyone is different and has their own preferences.

When I started to get more grey, conditioners kept blocking the herbs rinses I started to use for color. I don't like the idea of clarifying.

Also they did not seem to do all that much for my hair.

Through luck, I discovered catnip here, not listed in a post for color but to promote "growth and shine".

By researching, and use, I discovered it produces a light yellow dye and 3000 experiments later, gives me all of the conditioning I need.

AmandaPanda
February 10th, 2007, 01:50 PM
However, everyone is different and has their own preferences.

Yes. That is what I said at the end of my previous post.

When I started to get more grey, conditioners kept blocking the herbs rinses I started to use for color. I don't like the idea of clarifying.


Exactly. Conditioners=blocking. You were probably using ones with waxes and cones. I don't like the idea of clarifying, either....which is why I'm going to avoid conditioners with waxes and cones

Glad you found what works for you.

:flowers:

DMARTINEZ
February 10th, 2007, 02:47 PM
Any recomendations for conditioners that dont have waxes+cones? I would
think there would be very few. But Id like to hear of some. :)

Deb

ktani
February 10th, 2007, 04:02 PM
AmandaPanda

The last conditioner I used regularly before giving them up, except for once every 4 months when I get a trim, did have the waxes but no cones so it definitely was the waxes that blocked.


DMARTINEZ

I cannot remember what thread it was where someone mentioned a condish with no waxes or cones.

Raederle
February 10th, 2007, 04:02 PM
I bought Ruth Winters Cosmetic Dictionaries, 2 editions so far, to have up to date information a while ago before I joined LHC and began internet researching to the extent I do now.

Cetearyl Alcohol also called emulsifying wax

Cetyl Alcohol

Stearyl Alcohol

Stearic Acid

Glycearyl Stearate

are a few - fatty alcohols and acids tend to be waxy.

I remember when I used to avoid both cetearyl alcohol and cetyl alcohol because I assumed they were whale based products, based upon the prefix. I guess cetyl alcohol used to be derived from whale sources, but is now usually from coconut. Imagine my chagrin when I saw cetearyl alcohol touted on a vegan site. Well, any day you learn something is a good day.

ktani
February 10th, 2007, 04:20 PM
This is the basic Goth Rosary Conditioner that you can just add scent to or not.

PRODUCT INGREDIENTS: Aqua (Distilled Water), Dipalmitoylethyl dimoniun Chloride (from Palm Oil), Cellulose (Plant Fiber), Deoxyglutamyl Fructose (from Sugar Beets) and Fragrance (if chosen).

No waxes, no cones.

Now, cellulose is used technically as an emulsifier and is touted for other benefits but for me it is a no no.

It is also a film former that can build up and make my hair break more easily.

It is also in many conditioners under different names - hydroxyethylcellulose, hydroxymethylcellulose etc.

And then there are other film formers that do the same thing for me - polyquaternium anything - don't get me started. lol

Sometimes, you just can't win.

ktani
February 10th, 2007, 04:24 PM
Raederle

You are right on.

According to the dictionaries I mentioned, some of those ingredients did used to be sourced from whales but now are not usually as far as I know - with the ban on whale hunting, and it being cheaper to source elsewhere, or I believe, produce synthetically.

AmandaPanda
February 10th, 2007, 06:56 PM
I have two bottles of Goth Rosary Condish. I like it :)

DMARTINEZ, all of the Aubrey Organics conditioners do not have cones or waxes. There is a very good selection. That si all I can think of at the moment besides Goth Rosary :)

AmandaPanda
February 11th, 2007, 05:04 PM
I have updates the firast post to include the list of waxy ingredients and a list of conditioners without waxes or cones. Let me know if you find anything to add!

ktani
February 11th, 2007, 05:13 PM
AmandaPanda

Aubrey Organics conditioners do contain at least one waxy type ingredient, cetearyl alcohol I believe - their site is having problems right now so I cannot quote it.

However, they do not list it as such in their ingredients in each conditioner but as conditiong base which is broken down or used to be in their list of ingredients index.

I phoned them years ago and got a verbal breakdown and subsequently have seen it on their site.

Their site has been having problems since last night and I cannot get past a certain screen.

AmandaPanda
February 11th, 2007, 06:01 PM
I phoned them years ago and got a verbal breakdown and subsequently have seen it on their site.


They have changed their formulas over the years, and I have not seen cetearyl alcohol in any of their conditioners, so I'm leaving that brand on the list until it's confirmed

Anyone know if glycerine is a wax?

ktani
February 11th, 2007, 06:20 PM
AmandaPanda

Glycerine is not a wax.

"Glycerol, also well known as glycerin and glycerine, and less commonly as propane-1,2,3-triol, 1,2,3-propanetriol, 1,2,3-trihydroxypropane, glyceritol, and glycyl alcohol is a colorless, odorless, hygroscopic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy), and sweet-tasting viscous (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity) liquid. Glycerol is a sugar alcohol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_alcohol) and has three hydrophilic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrophilic) alcoholic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol) hydroxyl groups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxyl_group) (OH-) that are responsible for its solubility in water (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water). Glycerol has a wide range of applications. Glycerol has a prochiral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prochiral) spatial arrangement of atoms."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerol

AmandaPanda
February 11th, 2007, 07:04 PM
awesome thanks

ktani
February 11th, 2007, 08:02 PM
AmandaPanda

I will keep trying the Aubrey site - now I am really curious and that means tenacious until I get an answer.

AmandaPanda
February 11th, 2007, 08:37 PM
I've been trying too. Ugh. I wonder what is up

ktani
February 11th, 2007, 08:55 PM
AmandaPanda

I finally got on the site - the call it Coconut Fatty Acid Cream Base - same as before and do not break it down.

I will call their 800 number tomorrow - unless you want to call.

AmandaPanda
February 11th, 2007, 09:13 PM
I went into the ingredient dictionary on their site and saw this

"Coconut Fatty Acid Cream Base — Absorption base containing essential fatty acids, coconut fatty alcohols from palm kernels, aloe vera and vitamins A, C and E. Rich in linoleic and linolenic acids (vitamin F), excellent nutrients and skin conditioners. In hair care products, it is often combined with the important amino acids cysteine and methionine, which are high in sulfur and excellent for the hair and scalp."

ktani
February 11th, 2007, 09:46 PM
AmandaPanda

Thanks, I was looking under F, for Fatty. - Long day - I remembered wrong - they use cetyl alcohol.

I found this on their site.

"This dictionary lists many of the ingredients used by natural cosmetics manufacturers, including Aubrey Organics®. Ingredients are listed in alphabetical order, using their most common names. Latin names of most herbs are also included.
Feel free to copy this list, or print it for future reference. "

"Coconut Fatty Alcohols — The long-chain fatty alcohols from coconut palm kernels, which are natural emollients. Synthetic versions of cetyl alcohol are often used in commercial formulations and should be avoided.
http://www.aubrey-organics.com/about/dictionary/c_diction.cfm

which led me here for you to see

"Cetyl alcohol, also known as 1-hexadecanol and palmityl alcohol, is a solid organic compound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_compound) and a member of the alcohol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol) class of compounds. Its chemical formula (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_formula) is CH3(CH2)15OH. At room temperature, cetyl alcohol takes the form of a waxy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wax) white solid or flakes. It belongs to the group of fatty alcohols (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_alcohol)."

"With the demise of commercial whaling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling), cetyl alcohol is no longer primarily produced from whale oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_oil), but instead either as an end-product of the petroleum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum) industry, or produced from vegetable oils (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable_oil) such as palm oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_oil) and coconut oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_oil). Production of cetyl alcohol from palm oil gives rise to one of its alternative names, palmityl alcohol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetyl_alcohol

AmandaPanda
February 12th, 2007, 06:25 AM
ok. I guess that's off the list

ktani
February 12th, 2007, 06:30 AM
AmandaPanda

I called Aubrey too, but the person I need to talk to has not called back yet - I just want to be absolutely sure.

EDIT: The person from Aubrey has not called me back yet , however I cannot see why they would single out cetyl alcohol on their site if they were not using it in their products.