Seriously? What ingrediants clean the hair and why does it work? I mean I CO but I never know why it works and have a hard time explaining it works to people in real life.

I asked that same question last year sometime. Not sure why...must be
enough of something in a cheaper conditioner to cleanse or gently wash the
scalp. All I know is I LOVE it. ;)

Deb

I think it has to do with the surfectant/surfactant properties of the ingredients. A lot of things work as surfactants. Imagine a surfactant molecule as being shaped like a teardrop. It has a fat part we will call the head, and a skinny part we will call the tail. The head is attracted to dirt and oils, wrapping it up in a bubble. The tail attracts water. So the head has the dirt/oil molecule all wrapped up allowing the water to follow the tail and float the dirt/oil out of your hair (or off your skin, laundry what have you). We see this on a larger scale as the surectant/surfactant breaking the surface tension of the water allowing it to get under the dirt/oils and float them away. Basically the difference between a light patter of rain on dusty ground v.s. the same rain on moist earth. The droplets will just float on the dust because of the surface tension. But already moist earth breaks the tension and allows the water to seep into the ground.

So, anything that will wrap dirt/oil molecules up into a free floating ball that can be rinsed away will act as a surfactant. Where we get into trouble is with the harsher surfactants, because they have a very aggressive head that strips more oils off than necessary in the balling up process, and the ingredients used to make them have side effects like drying out the hair/skin etc.

Conditioner has a very mild surfactant property. It seems to get most of the dirt out without balling up too much of the oils, leaving the hair clean but not overly stripped of it’s natural sebum. It also seems to take quite a bit of water to rinse it out because it isn’t forming very aggressive balls of ick, so that tail may be weak or incomplete lowering it’s hydroscopic effect.

Mind you, I’m working with just enough knowledge here to be dangerous. But it’s my pet theory on the whole thing.:twocents:

ETA: I could have saved a lot of confusion if I had remembered to add the bit about how oils wrap dirt up nicely too. Which is why wo works well for some, the natural sebum is making dirt balls and with enough water it's getting 'floated out of there'

I think it has to do with the surfectant/surfactant properties of the ingredients. A lot of things work as surfactants. Imagine a surfactant molecule as being shaped like a teardrop. It has a fat part we will call the head, and a skinny part we will call the tail. The head is attracted to dirt and oils, wrapping it up in a bubble. The tail attracts water. So the head has the dirt/oil molecule all wrapped up allowing the water to follow the tail and float the dirt/oil out of your hair (or off your skin, laundry what have you). We see this on a larger scale as the surectant/surfactant breaking the surface tension of the water allowing it to get under the dirt/oils and float them away. Basically the difference between a light patter of rain on dusty ground v.s. the same rain on moist earth. The droplets will just float on the dust because of the surface tension. But already moist earth breaks the tension and allows the water to seep into the ground.

So, anything that will wrap dirt/oil molecules up into a free floating ball that can be rinsed away will act as a surfactant. Where we get into trouble is with the harsher surfactants, because they have a very aggressive head that strips more oils off than necessary in the balling up process, and the ingredients used to make them have side effects like drying out the hair/skin etc.

Conditioner has a very mild surfactant property. It seems to get most of the dirt out without balling up too much of the oils, leaving the hair clean but not overly stripped of it’s natural sebum. It also seems to take quite a bit of water to rinse it out because it isn’t forming very aggressive balls of ick, so that tail may be weak or incomplete lowering it’s hydroscopic effect.

Mind you, I’m working with just enough knowledge here to be dangerous. But it’s my pet theory on the whole thing.:twocents:

ETA: I could have saved a lot of confusion if I had remembered to add the bit about how oils wrap dirt up nicely too. Which is why wo works well for some, the natural sebum is making dirt balls and with enough water it's getting 'floated out of there'

That was an excellent explanation! DH, who RARELY reads over my shoulder was meszmerized, lol. Thanks!

Thanks for the information. I think I will CO more often. At first I thought my hair wasn't getting clean enough but it just wasn't getting dryed out. I used to think that if it wasn't all dry and flyaway then it wasn't clean.

Thanks for that explanation, very helpful! Makes me feel better about sticking w/trying CO. :flower:

wow thanks for that explanation!

i think that the idea that "dry, no oil at all" = "clean" comes from the belief that "oil" is "bad".

boggles my mind why you would do so much to strip out all that oil and then put silicone in your hair which keeps it from getting back into the hair. but hey, i believed it was the right thing to do for 30 years.... :wink: working on overcoming this, and getting to know how much oil/greasy feeling is "normal". luckily i never was an every day shampooer except when it's really hot out, and usually like 2nd day hair.

Very cool explanation - Have only done CO officially twice now - loving the results - hair a little lighter in shading, softer, definitely not as dried out..so far can still go the third day to wash - glad I joined the CO'ers! (So far, so good...) [out of interest, decided to switch to CO with volume light conditioners (White Rain, VO5 in waiting..picked out the volume ones on weekend to combat the flatter look, but tried the 30-min goop-up on dry hair - definitely more effective cleaning..knock on wood.) Here's hoping does the trick.
Thanks you guys,
take care,
- tlc

wow, that's such a good explanation that I really want to give CO another shot!

As far as I know, it's the cetearyl alcohol in the conditioners. Cetearyl Alcohol is an emulgator, which works in the same way a tensid works - by connecting oil and water (meaning - the grease can be washed away by water).
Since the emulgator in the conditioner is already "used" to make the conditioner stable and not separating into water and oily parts, only parts of it can be used for cleaning, which is why it doesn't clean as much as a shampoo does.
Conditioners with more excess emulgator do clean better than conditioner where almost all of the emulgator is already bound with water and oil.

That's my non-scientific explanation, I bet more knowlageable people can explain it more precisely. :lol:

I think it has to do with the surfectant/surfactant properties of the ingredients. A lot of things work as surfactants. Imagine a surfactant molecule as being shaped like a teardrop. It has a fat part we will call the head, and a skinny part we will call the tail. The head is attracted to dirt and oils, wrapping it up in a bubble. The tail attracts water. So the head has the dirt/oil molecule all wrapped up allowing the water to follow the tail and float the dirt/oil out of your hair (or off your skin, laundry what have you). We see this on a larger scale as the surectant/surfactant breaking the surface tension of the water allowing it to get under the dirt/oils and float them away. Basically the difference between a light patter of rain on dusty ground v.s. the same rain on moist earth. The droplets will just float on the dust because of the surface tension. But already moist earth breaks the tension and allows the water to seep into the ground.

So, anything that will wrap dirt/oil molecules up into a free floating ball that can be rinsed away will act as a surfactant. Where we get into trouble is with the harsher surfactants, because they have a very aggressive head that strips more oils off than necessary in the balling up process, and the ingredients used to make them have side effects like drying out the hair/skin etc.

Conditioner has a very mild surfactant property. It seems to get most of the dirt out without balling up too much of the oils, leaving the hair clean but not overly stripped of it’s natural sebum. It also seems to take quite a bit of water to rinse it out because it isn’t forming very aggressive balls of ick, so that tail may be weak or incomplete lowering it’s hydroscopic effect.

Mind you, I’m working with just enough knowledge here to be dangerous. But it’s my pet theory on the whole thing.:twocents:

ETA: I could have saved a lot of confusion if I had remembered to add the bit about how oils wrap dirt up nicely too. Which is why wo works well for some, the natural sebum is making dirt balls and with enough water it's getting 'floated out of there'

That was a really good description!!!! Just to add (since I've been hanging around the chemistry department too much lately)... surfectants do have a water-loving (hydrophillic) and water-hating (hyrdophobic) ends, and what they normally do is kinda group together in a koosh-ball like formation, with all the oily heads in the middle and the water-loving parts sticking out. When you agitate these koosh ball type things (micelle's), they break up a little bit and any bit of oil (which usually traps dirt) nearby will go into the middle of the micelle to get away from the water.

That's why your clothes don't get clean if you don't scrub them (or agitate like the washing machine). Cetaryl Alcolhol has a water loving side (alcolhol), and a water hating side (cetaryl part, long string of carbons). Strong detergents form micelle's really really well, weak ones take time to form. Since the amphipathic molecules in conditioner are used for emmolients (mix water and oil), they are fairly weak at forming micelles. If you leave them on your head for a while, and scrub it around a bit, some will form and get rid of exccess oil.

Did that make any sense?

Thanks! A lot of those explanations really helped. :grin:

It still amazes me at how well it works and how many people I have told about it are open to trying it. :-)

What great explainations! This makes it easier to explain how COing actually does *clean* the hair and scalp.(Many friends and family are agog at the concept.):rockerdud

These fantastic explanations make me love my COing even more!!! Thanks.

Conditioners contain cationic surfactants, usually used as an emulsifier. As mentioned before, this is something that will make oils and water mix and can remove excess oil and dirt from the hair. It isn't as effective a surfactant as anionic surfactants, such as soap and detergent, but will work if you give it time. Cationic surfactants have a + charge to the molecule. The hair strand has a - charge. Therefore, it will not rinse as thoroughly from the hair because + loves - and vice versa. This leaves a tiny bit of the surfactant behind, as well as some of the 'goodies' that are also in the condish like moisturizers, humectants, oils, and whatever else.

With regular shampoos which have a - charge (anionic), the surfactant is repelled from the hair and will wash pretty much everything off the strands and leave it more 'naked'. This can lead to dryness, despite having other 'goodies' in the poo formulation.

I think it has to do with the surfectant/surfactant properties of the ingredients. A lot of things work as surfactants.

ETA: I could have saved a lot of confusion if I had remembered to add the bit about how oils wrap dirt up nicely too. Which is why wo works well for some, the natural sebum is making dirt balls and with enough water it's getting 'floated out of there'

Or as my engineer father in law used to say -
"Water is the ultimate surfactant, and all soaps, detergents, etc do is make water wetter."

Which means - water itself will clean just about anything, given enough time to work on it. Additives (soaps, detergents, conditioner, even oils) simply improve water's ability to cut through and lift away the muck.

A completely non-technical opinion here -
I think conditioners help penetrate the gunk (sebum, oils, product, etc) and "wrap" around it, and the water rinses it all away.