I miss my brush. I am less than a week into the curly girl routine (I figure I am somewhere between wavy and curly--kind of very loose long spiral curls), and I hate my hair!

I cannot keep it moist enough. Just before it dries most of the curls fall out, and it gets horribly tangled. Today I couldn't take it anymore, and I did it--I brushed my hair. You could measure the frizz in feet.

So those of you have been through this--does it get worse before it gets better, or am I doomed?

Shell, I'm walking toward you, very softly, very slowly, no sudden movement. Now, in my most gentle, persuasive voice I'm saying, 'Give-me-the-brrrush.' lol! ...You crack me up girl. But I think I know how you feel.

I'm a straightie so I have no pearls of wisdom for you except I wanted to encourage you to stick to your plan. When I gave up the blow-dryer it was a little similar to your situation. I hated my wavies. I was extremely disturbed by the wavies. The blow-dryer made them so straight for me for years. Anyway, I'm real happy now with my waves. Time changes you.

Hugs,
~Lil





I miss my brush. I am less than a week into the curly girl routine (I figure I am somewhere between wavy and curly--kind o

Were you COing before you tried Curly Girl? How many changes have you made to your routine in doing this experiment? Before and after routines would be helpful.

A couple things I can think of - you're using Milk & Honey as one of your CO conditioners. That has a pretty hefty dose of protein, it may be overloading. And Citrus Smoothy has, I think the methyl-something-zones as preservatives. Some folks find these coating. Or these conditioners may not be moisturizing enough on their own. So that might be something, too. Not everyone does well with vinigar rinses - are thes new to your routine?

You may also do better doing LHC style COs (longer conditioner soaks, with more conditioner, rinsed well) rather than quicker CG-COs with some left in.

Switching to CO does help for a lot of people, but it can take some time, and perhaps a few tries to find the right conditioners and routines.

Have you run across my standerd advice to new LHCers? Stick with your old products for a month, trying them in a CWC routine, read and learn for that month, and then gradually experiment, no more than one change to your routine every two weeks, so you know exactly what change is doing what.

I'm in the same situation as you. I tried the curly girl routine, but I missed my brush. I can go usually about the first day after a hair-wash without brushing (just combing) because the waves/curls/whatever-my-hair-decided-to-do are still in my hair, and look nice (that's when I wear it down), but after that, my hair was reduced to a mound of fluffiness, and needed a brush. I love my brush. You run it through your hair and then BOOM, all the tangles are gone! :) Sorry, I'm kind of brush-deprived at the moment because mine...melted. Don't ask. I just miss it.

Shell, I'm walking toward you, very softly, very slowly, no sudden movement. Now, in my most gentle, persuasive voice I'm saying, 'Give-me-the-brrrush.' lol! ...You crack me up girl. But I think I know how you feel.

Hugs,
~Lil

Lil,

Thanks for returning the laugh--I need it today.

Ursula,

Unfortunately I am not the cautious, try things out slowly type, and I probably am paying for it. I have been COing for about a month now, and even though I am doing CG, I still am really COing the LHC way. I mostly use Orange Smoothie, and maybe my hair doesn't like it. Mostly my hair likes change. I am one of those types that switches shampoos a lot.

I think my hair is responding badly to two things. 1) gel in the CG scrunching method and 2) our cruddy dry weather, followed by moderately humid weather outdoors, and dry heat indoors.

I think I will go back to what I was doing last week, and try to be patient.

Thanks for your sage advice.

HermoineHair,

I too love my brush, and even though my hair got as frizzy as Hermoine's, I loved every second of it. Thanks for sharing my guilty brush pleasure.

You're welcome! :) I think some hair just craves brushing, at least every now and then. Or perhaps at the moment I'm just brush-crazy because I'm lacking one. You never know! :)

You're welcome! :) I think some hair just craves brushing, at least every now and then. Or perhaps at the moment I'm just brush-crazy because I'm lacking one. You never know! :)

Okay, I gotta know--how did you melt your brush? Surely your hair's not that curly?

oooooh, I miss my brush too. I haven't used one since Oct last year (well, maybe a slip up every now and again.) *sigh* My hair looks much better though without it and I think it's finally growing--the brush was ripping off the ends.

Using a comb to scritch my scalp has helped alleviate my brush-longings.

Good luck! :flowers:
jes

ETA: I REALLY miss my husband brushing my hair.

Honest--you can get used to not using a brush. I did. I only comb now, and have actually gone out of the house without even combing to keep those waves and curls intact. You can do this. You just take it one day at a time. Promise.

Honest--you can get used to not using a brush. I did. I only comb now, and have actually gone out of the house without even combing to keep those waves and curls intact. You can do this. You just take it one day at a time. Promise.

Okay, I promise. I put the brush away again. My son hid all of the brushes a few days ago (except my BBB which I got to first--just in case).

My son's hair is getting curly, and he wants me to let mine get curly too. I still have some reservations about it getting natural. It's kind of a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde thing. I guess up to now it's been kind of an unpredictable but benevolent Dr. Jekyll, but I think I might be unleashing Mr. Hyde.

Thanks for the no brushing encouragement, clearly I need it.

Not a curly girl, but I remember so very well the times when I always used a brush to detangle and was totally convinced of that combs didn't work for me (the cheapo combs you get from a grocery store in packs of three... :rolleyes: ). My hair was also quite dry and had always a halo of flyaways unless I hairsprayed them to near death.

During past year my hair has completely changed and I don't even own a detangling brush or hairspray :grin: . I don't need them. Advice you get on these boards really works. But it may not always work overnight. Right now, one thing I'm thinking that with winter coming, just changing of the weather may hide the first subtle signs of success. If hair is not in excellent shape, dry winter weather can affect it strongly. Even with a hair in best possible shape, many people find that during winter they need extra moisture.

So try to be patient and continue pampering your hair. It's also possible that your hair needs more than moisture like oils, protein or even small amounts of cones. But, I'm pretty sure that it does not need vigorous brushing ;) .

I don't even own a brush anymore because it's too tempting. I miss it too. I think when all my virgin hair grows out, as a reward, I'll buy a Mason Pearson hairbrush. That's a long time away though and I don't even know if I'll be able to then cause I can't remember how wavy my natural hair is. Currently, to get to that point I'm slowly snipping off the dead, damaged, permed hair.

Hi Shell! :waving:

First of all, it actually sounds like you really have three separate problems:

1) Your hair is fighting your new routine (which is common for CO)
2) You like brushing because it feels good and you miss it
3) Your hair is too dry

I have several suggestions, and you are obviously free to take them or leave them:

Premise #1: You said that your hair "likes change." My hair used to "like change" as well, and the truth of the matter is that my hair didn't like any of the products I was using, and when one became too coating/drying/damaging/whatever, I would switch products, and it would wash out the other product, and so for a little while (maybe a week or two) I would have better hair...until the product I was using then started to build up and kill my hair all over again! (EEK!)

Suggestion #1: Find a conditioner with as few ingredients as possible. You can't know if it's protein, panthenol, cones, preservatives, any of that stuff until you eliminate all but one or two. It will also help keep your hair from getting gummed up from ingredients it doesn't like so that you don't "have to change" again. Once I found ingredients that agreed with my hair, I didn't change for a long time. I am in the process of finding a new conditioner now because so many have panthenol (vitamin B5) in them now, and I can't use that ingredient at all. But I only found that out after reading lots of labels and doing lots of product experiments. It is frustrating but it is true that the most certain results are from "one hair experiment at a time." Boring, huh? :wink:

Premise #2: Like many people who do CO, you seem to be having a transition period with it, and it's not easy. Your mental hair baselines of "what is normal" are all out of whack, and things are looking bad and strange.

Suggestion #2: Accept that change is here, and allow the process time to work. Some of what you are experiencing really is just transition and not necessarily something permanently wrong.

Premise #3: You have dry hair, and your CO doesn't seem to be moisturizing enough. It also seems that maybe some previous product is being removed from your hair and you are finally seeing the actual condition of your hair to some extent. You also are using protein conditioner, which gives some people what I call "doll hair." And no, it isn't good.

Suggestion #3: This is the most complicated aspect of the whole thing, I think. It involves mental and physical remedies. So bear with me!

A. First, consider Ursula's idea that you are on protein overload. It can cause tangles, loss of curl formation, etc. etc. and generally give you "doll hair." Yick. Consider getting another conditioner without protein or non-water-soluable cones.

B. Second, you must get moisture to your hair, and this goes no matter what routine you are on. I suggest any and all of the following: Buy a humidifier and run it in your bedroom. It makes a lot of difference for my hair, personally. It is also good for your skin, BTW. Try damp braiding. I braid my hair in two braids, then get the braids wet. When they stop dripping (I help with a towel a bit) I go to bed. The results are always good, but this technique can hurt curl formation. I do it the night before a wash. Try SMT, aka Snowy's Moisture Treatment. The recipe is on the recipes forum and it is almost universally loved because it WORKS. I have used it as a deep treatment, an overnight treatment and also as regular conditioner. Works like a charm for all of them.
C. Third, mentally accept the idea that your new routine may have revealed damage from the past. This one is hard, but most new LHCers go through this experience, and sometimes folks who've been around a while go through it when they switch routines. You're still early in this process yet, but mentally preparing yourself for the fact that your hair may be damaged is a good idea. You have to take care of damaged hair a bit differently than healthy hair. You have to baby it a lot more. I hear the term "nurse it along" a lot and it's true.

Premise #3: You miss your brush. It was a pleasant experience and it's familiar as well. Ahhhhh, comfort! I really missed the feel of my brush too when I gave it up. It will take a while to stop actively missing that feeling. I still miss it sometimes, but not enough to rip up my hair again! :lol:

Suggestion #3A: Replace the brushing with scalp massage. Not only will it help keep your scalp clean and healthy and feel great, it will also help distribute your hair's natural sebum to keep it soft and supple. Scalp massage, when done right, causes minimal tangles. To read about Snowy's scalp massage technique, click here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=15976 If you find that her technique is causing too many tangles, you can try my variation for curlier hair here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=236992&postcount=22

Suggestion #3B: Learn to fingercomb. It is actually very calming, just like brushing, once you get into the rhythm of it. And it's nice and quiet. I love it so much that I consider it "me" time. Nothing like a good finger detangle after scalp massage....AHHHH. Comfort.

One final suggestion....

Get a good pair of small, sharp scissors with pointy ends, and try some search and destroy missions. I know that when I cut out the pixie (one-hair) knots and split ends, my hair tangles much less and is generally a happier camper. If you find a lot of damage, don't worry too much about it. You WILL get rid of it eventually. Don't overtax yourself on the S&D. Just a couple of minutes every once in a while. If you can, concentrate on problem areas. Mine is right at the nape of my neck. My curliest hair is also the hair that I can't see or reach very well. :rolleyes: :lol: I get a lot more splits and knots back there, so I try to keep it S&D'd well to reduce tangles. Those pixie knots are like a hair infection for me. Once one hair gets a knot, it tangles readily with others and causes more. They breed, I tell you! :bigeyes: :wink:

Anyway, I hope these suggestions help you get your mind around things if nothing else. :flower:

Speedy

I like to brush my hair, too. It feels so good. I limit it to the day I'm going to wash my hair. First I make sure it is thoroughly detangled. Then I use a bbb and give my hair a nice, long, loving brushing. This gets the loose hairs out so that they don't clog up the drain. So far, I haven't been able to do more than 2 CO washes in a row before I notice buildup. So every third time I use diluted shampoo. This is working very well. I love the way my hair feels and behaves now - thank you LHC!

you CAN give up the brush! I did! and now, it's not so bad. but yeah - for awhile it can be really hard!

As for the routines - I tried CO with the Milk and HOney when I first started COing, and had a similar problem - I've since switched to more moisturizing conditioners for CO and have had MUCH better luck. Everyone has a different "perfect match" when it comes to these things.

but I'm not sure I can offer any advice better than Speedy and Ursula (YOU GUYS ROCK!) so I'll just offer my support to your decision to go brush free. Good Luck!

((((Shell))))) Well hair twin, it DOES get better. I switched to a Conair shower comb and my waves are more defined and I have a lot less FRIZZ!!!

It did take me a while to get used to not using my brush, but after 6 months I can honestly say I do not miss it!

Best wishes!

This thread just made me realize something that's never occured to me. I posted to my journal, so I'll just excerpt a bit here:


Up until a few months ago, I was totally cone-free. My hair was bushy, which is rather impressive for a F/M. My hair tangled easily, and I could barely get a brush through, let alone a comb. Then one day I was at my friend's house, and we'd been swimming, so I took a shower, and used her Dove S and C. Since I've switched to Dove, I've used my brush three times. Each time my hair frizzes, and I feel like it's still tangled.
Moral of the story: No cones, and no brush for me!

Shell, I have a brush, and I'm afraid to use it! So, breathe, and remember you CAN get through this!

Shell, I am about as far from a curly as they come with my babyfine, dead straight hair, but I had some adjustments to make, too. For me, it wasn't the brush, but styling products. I used tons of them back in my bob days. Either gel or preferably, mousse, with some nice hairspray on top of that pretty much every day. It often took baking soda in my shampoo to get out the gunk. I used that stuff so many years I nearly forgot the natural texture of my hair — flat, fine and super silky. When I started growing out I knew I had to ditch it all if I wanted long hair, and went cold turkey (well, after it began laying on my shoulders I did). I can't tell you how weird it was at first. It was like having my childhood hair back, only I was in my 50s and the whole thing was just... freaky.

Eventually I got over it. Now I wouldn't put hairspray on my hair for anything, though I keep some cheap stuff in the cabinet to get ballpoint pen ink out of clothes. Otherwise I don't touch it. My very own, silky straight hair has new appeal and beauty to me that it didn't for all those years.

I can't give you advice on your CO, proteins, cones or anything, but I can say hang in there. Sometimes the mental adjustment is the biggest hurdle we have to cross. I suspect your natural hair is just beautiful. Do look around at other gorgeous heads of hair with your hairtype and realize THAT is where you are headed!

Alright, I'll tell you how my brush melted. :) You see, I had lice (DIE, lice, DIE). It was unpleasant. Anways, my mom boiled my comb and brush. The comb doesn't look so good, and the brush is not really melted, but it did get a little melted so it doesn't quite fit together right.

Anyways, my hair is now lice-free (after going through a whole jar of Vaseline, and then baking soda, dishwashing detergent, dishwashing soap, laundry detergent, and every shampoo that we own to get it out), so I'm happy (but I'm going to get another brush: WATCH OUT!). Hee hee hee! :)

Alright, I'll tell you how my brush melted. :) You see, I had lice (DIE, lice, DIE). It was unpleasant. Anways, my mom boiled my comb and brush. The comb doesn't look so good, and the brush is not really melted, but it did get a little melted so it doesn't quite fit together right.

Anyways, my hair is now lice-free (after going through a whole jar of Vaseline, and then baking soda, dishwashing detergent, dishwashing soap, laundry detergent, and every shampoo that we own to get it out), so I'm happy (but I'm going to get another brush: WATCH OUT!). Hee hee hee! :)

Oh, you poor thing. We have such troubles here with lice, but I have been lucky. I totally support your getting a new brush, but you have to put it in your lingerie drawer and promise not to use it (that way I can feel that we are both being strong.).

I have seen such beautiful hair here, and I know that mine can be nicer (though I do currently like it), and so I appreciate all of your support. If my hair can look like so many of the beautiful heads of hair I see here, it will be worth it.

Brush free again today (so far),

Michele

Hi Shell! :waving:

First of all, it actually sounds like you really have three separate problems:

1) Your hair is fighting your new routine (which is common for CO)
2) You like brushing because it feels good and you miss it
3) Your hair is too dry

Speedy,

I think you really have it--at least that is the conclusion I reached last night. I think that my "real" hair is emerging from many years of shampoo and brushing. I already do not use 'cones (the cause of some past switching), and try to use conditioners with few ingredients. I mostly use Citrus Smoothie which hasn't got much protein, but perhaps I'll switch to one without any.

My hair is too dry. Everything about me is dry (including my sense of humor). I really struggle to find a condish that is moisturizing enough. For my conditioning conditioner (as opposed to my washing conditioner) I bought Biolage ('cause I ran out of my other), and worry now that it is part of the problem (see Ursula's advice on not switching too much). I will stick with CO, because overall I do think that it is helping my hair. I think a big problem is getting a really moisturizing condish that works and won't weight my hair down.

I have hair scissors, and cut my own (and others') hair. I do S & D, and actually don't have many splits. It's just this dryness.

No heat, no cones, no chemical stuff, just the hair brush--it's my only vice.

With all the support, I'm working on it.

Thanks again all.

I have a pic on my profile if you want to see my dry waves--it sounds cool, but it's not!

Oh, you poor thing. We have such troubles here with lice, but I have been lucky. I totally support your getting a new brush, but you have to put it in your lingerie drawer and promise not to use it (that way I can feel that we are both being strong.).

I can't give up my brush! No! I'll just promise to myself that I will be very, very careful, brush slowly, and not rip through tangles, regardless of whether I'm in a hurry. However, I will promise never to use it the day of or the day after a hair wash. That way, I can be sure to protect my hair from harmful brushing while wet, and I can enjoy nice, pretty waves. I've been brushing my hair (as long as waist-length) my whole life, and I don't think it was so bad as people think here.

Oh, and thanks for the sympathy about the lice. My mom complained the whole time about how my hair was too long because she couldn't get the lice comb all the way through, but I said that that is just too bad. :) She threatened to cut off all my hair last time I had lice, but somehow I avoided that.

Have you tried using a conditioner that you've already had good luck with as an SMT?

SMT is one of the best ways to moisturize hair, an hour or so of letting it sit can make a big difference. And if you use a conditioner that already works well (your Citrus Smoothie should be fine) that is no cone and not too much protein, it is very reliable, and a pretty safe experiment. And it can be a good way to perk up a conditioner that is decent except for not being moisturizing enough.

(SMT = Snowy's Moisture Treatment. See the recipe board.)

Have you tried using a conditioner that you've already had good luck with as an SMT?

SMT is one of the best ways to moisturize hair, an hour or so of letting it sit can make a big difference. And if you use a conditioner that already works well (your Citrus Smoothie should be fine) that is no cone and not too much protein, it is very reliable, and a pretty safe experiment. And it can be a good way to perk up a conditioner that is decent except for not being moisturizing enough.

(SMT = Snowy's Moisture Treatment. See the recipe board.)

Hmm, excellent suggestion. Maybe tomorrow after yoga. What about coconut Suave? Maybe I'll check the protein levels in that. I haven't had a conditioner that I really liked in a long time--hence the dry hair. This is a big reason that I decided to try CO. I am very sensitive to 'cones and other unknown (to me) components of products. I usually shop at the health food store; I am a recent Suave user.

Thanks again.

LOL! Loved the title and some of the fun replies.

Came across this thread within minutes of opening my box of stuff from Morrocco Method, including the first brush I've owned in at least twenty years. It's the small, gentle one for children's hair, since mine is as fine, straight and thin as it comes, before perm. (Last done on Halloween!)

After a CO a few hours before, finger scrunching and airdrying (always) the brush glided so nicely through my hair. Not a single tangle.

If I've learned anything at all over the past three years it's that we're all different from external appearance all the way down to the genetic/biochemical level.

But it made me laugh that literally within moments of rediscovering the joys of the hairbrush here I was reading about others giving it up, like a horrid vice!

Since my hair is fine, thin, and still short at chin length, and since it didn't tangle, and since the scalp massage of the soft blonde boar bristles felt so good, I'll go my own way for now.

Actually went a bit overboard brushing three times today! It did straighten the perm-curls, but they're back after my first MM session. Did have more shed than normal after the final rinse, but I expected that with the first brushing in several decades. Still only about 3 hairs in the brush. Most came out in the wash, as it always does.

Maybe in a few months I'll join those who are hanging up their brushes. We'll see.

I believe that after a little experimentation our eyes, fingers, and hearts will tell us what's right for our individual needs.

Cheers!
TessieAnn

Just so everyone knows, I swear by Suave coconut conditioner! I love that stuff! It makes my hair so nice and soft and detangled. And it smells good!