Google
 
Web forums.longhaircommunity.com

View Full Version : uncontrolable 3b/3c C iii hair HELP!!!


Kenya
November 27th, 2005, 10:48 AM
Hi, I am new here, there are so many great ideas for hair here!!! but I don't know what to do with mine!

A little history;
I am biracial (jamacian, dutch, spanish, Irish and scottish).
I was raised by my white mother that hoad no clue what to do with my hair growing up, but niether do I.
my hair is now 32 inches long very curly and very course.

my problem is that it is starting to feel like straw, is super unmanagable, and looks really frizzy.

It does not feel soft. I have tried many different products and nothing seems to help for long. It takes 4-5 different products to get my hair to look somewhat o.k. I would like to know if there are any products that are good for my hair that will; detangle, hydrate, de-frizz, make my hair look good before I chop it all off out of frustration!!!!

I love the length of my hair but it takes me 20-35 minutes to brush through it every morning, only for it to be a rats nest by night again.
I don't seem to be able to brush through it when it's dry, I can't pick it as I've broken about 12 of these. I've never been able to get a comb through it without getting it stuck and having to cut it out.
Do you braid your hair before you go to bed to keep it from tangleing at night? or is this harmful?
I find myself wearing my hair up a lot because I don't know what to do with it any more.

any ideas on brushes?

WHAT DO I DO??? PLEASE HELP ME FIGURE SOMETHING OUT
thanks, Kenya

HermioneHair
November 27th, 2005, 10:55 AM
My hair is very difficult sometimes, as well. This is what I do at night: I brush it until there are very few tangles (my hair is never completely tangle-free), and then I braid it. I think that's supposed to protect your hair, but I just do it so I don't have to spend as long brushing it in the morning. As for getting your hair to be softer and more manageable, I use Suave Naturals Coconut Conditioner (it's cheap and it makes my hair feel softer and less tangled).

I have a cousin with really curly hair, and she mixes conditioner (the same kind I use) with water and sprays it on her hair every morning while she brushes it (it makes it easier to brush), and then she braids it immediately and wears it like that.

QuiteContrary
November 27th, 2005, 11:00 AM
I am biracial (jamacian, dutch, spanish, Irish and scottish).
I was raised by my white mother that hoad no clue what to do with my hair growing up, but niether do I.
my hair is now 32 inches long very curly and very course.

my problem is that it is starting to feel like straw, is super unmanagable, and looks really frizzy.

It does not feel soft. I have tried many different products and nothing seems to help for long. It takes 4-5 different products to get my hair to look somewhat o.k. I would like to know if there are any products that are good for my hair that will; detangle, hydrate, de-frizz, make my hair look good before I chop it all off out of frustration!!!!

. . . . Do you braid your hair before you go to bed to keep it from tangleing at night? or is this harmful?


Yes! Something I actually know! I'm biraccial, too, so I've been there.

First, and foremost, stop brushing. Unless you are about the shower and want to distribute the oil down to your ends (using a good boar bristle brush!), you've got to let go of the brush. I'm still coping with this one. Brushing and combing supercurly hair will turn it to fuzzies. You should only comb to detangle (perhaps when you wake up or in the shower), and when you do comb, you're going to have to take your time (yes, hair like ours takes a lot of time). Start slowly, combing and finger de-tangling through the bottom couple of inches, then move up doing the same. This is going to take a while, so have something good to watch or listen to.

Do you use a leave-in conditioner? They help a bit. And cones! I think hair like ours really likes cones, it helps so much with the detangling. As far as good products, I found Tresemme Anti-Breakage condish and Apple Pectin condish give me softer (and rather nice-smelling) hair

When you sleep and when you are outside, it would probably be beneficial to braid your hair. This will help cut down on those snags and tangles.

Make sure you're following the basics: not overwashing, no harmful hair toys, no sulfates, etc.

Another thing, and this is the most difficult part for me, is letting go of the idea of what is beautiful and acceptable. I used to only think white girl hair--stick straight, wavy, curly, whatever, it's not as crazy as ours--was pretty, but it is impossible for me to achieve without damaging my hair immensely. It's taken me a while, but I'm slowly accepting what I see in the mirror as far as hair goes. Yes, it's wild, it's insane, and it just might poke someone's eye out, but it's my hair, it's unique, and it has its own personality.

I hope I've been some help. Good luck!

QuiteContrary
November 27th, 2005, 11:03 AM
ack! Almost forgot: make sure you're getting enough water to drink! Sometimes, that's the case with me.

And, HermioneHair I love your name. makes me wish I'd thought of it!

HermioneHair
November 27th, 2005, 11:05 AM
And, HermioneHair I love your name. makes me wish I'd thought of it!

Thanks! I've been told so many times that I look like Hermione with my hair that I decided to use that for my name so I wouldn't have to explain so much what my hair is like. :)

rawtoast
November 27th, 2005, 12:23 PM
I have to say I don't have curly hair myself, but I totally agree with everything QuiteContrary has said. Especially the part about ditching your brush and detangling in the shower when you have lots of condish on your hair. Keeping your hair contained (updos, braids, etc) when it's not being detangled, even when you're sleeping, will also help cut down on tangles.

Also, looking through the journals of people with hairtypes similar to yours might help, to see what they do. You have two hair twins, Burgundyhair and Reddhot. There's also probably others who have similar hair types to you (3b C iii, 3c C iii, 3b M/C iii, etc) that I didn't look for. Do try to remember, though, upsetting your entire routine at one time is not a good idea. Because then you won't know which change helped you, and which changes aren't helping at all. Take it one step at a time, go slow :)

Good luck! Happy growing! :flowers:

Kenya
November 27th, 2005, 12:28 PM
ok so what is a cone? I haven't a clue...also were do I find these products you mentioned? can they be found at walmart? I live in Canada so things that are found in the states are most likley not here. We do not have a cool little AA selection like someone mentioned in another post. where do I find a bore bristle brush. and do I use it like normal, I know dumb question!
so it is ok if I brush in the shower?
So dumb me decieded to try and hydrate my hair this afternoon with all kinds of organic oils and such, guess who now can't get it out!!! rrrrrrrrr. I just can't win!!!
I really am clueless when it comes to knowing what to do with this big tangled mess!!!
I do not blow dry, dye, heat, use curlers or anything else. the only thing I have done that isn't so good is brushing and most likely not using the right shampoo and such.
I am soooo tempted to just cut it all off and start over!!!!

trying to live in peace with my hair (it's not working!!!) Kenya

rawtoast
November 27th, 2005, 12:44 PM
Kenya, a 'cone is any product with silicone in it. These typically end in -cone or -conol, and it's easier to find products with them than without them! Companies put them in hair care products so that the hair is less tangly, shinier, and smoother. The chances that you're accidentally using a 'cone-free product are slim :) I know for a fact that Pantene and Herbal Essences have 'cones. Dove as well.

Boar bristle brushes are used every so often to distribute oil from your scalp to the ends of your hair. It's not a necessity though, if you look in the articles section Snowymoon has a massage technique that distributes oils very well without a BBB. I've used it a few times and boy, does it ever work! :lol: If you are going to BBB, you need to make sure your hair is tangle-free first.

Try to remember with oils that a little bit goes a long way. And not all hair likes oils, or all oils. My hair hates jojoba but it loves coconut. One or two drops is sufficient for my thin, 30" of hair. You probably wouldn't need more than four drops. Your hair shouldn't look oily when you're done. If it does, you used too much. And while you can always add more, washing is the only way to get less. It may help for your thick hair to part it into sections and individually apply your oil or leave-in that way.

Again, I highly suggest looking at journals of people who have hair types similar to yours. It really will help you get ideas about what might work for you. When you get enough posts, you can PM with members who have a similar hair type and ask them questions. Both those things really helped me when I was new!

Above all, be patient! Good hair will take time. There are very few overnight success stories (and they're lucky!) But it will happen, you will have beauriful gorgeous curls if you take care of your hair well.

HermioneHair
November 27th, 2005, 12:45 PM
ok so what is a cone? I haven't a clue...also were do I find these products you mentioned? can they be found at walmart? I live in Canada so things that are found in the states are most likley not here. We do not have a cool little AA selection like someone mentioned in another post. where do I find a bore bristle brush. and do I use it like normal, I know dumb question!
so it is ok if I brush in the shower?
So dumb me decieded to try and hydrate my hair this afternoon with all kinds of organic oils and such, guess who now can't get it out!!! rrrrrrrrr. I just can't win!!!
I really am clueless when it comes to knowing what to do with this big tangled mess!!!
I do not blow dry, dye, heat, use curlers or anything else. the only thing I have done that isn't so good is brushing and most likely not using the right shampoo and such.
I am soooo tempted to just cut it all off and start over!!!!

trying to live in peace with my hair (it's not working!!!) Kenya


Suave Naturals Coconut Conditioner can be found in most places like Walmart and grocery stores. It's very cheap, and it doesn't have any harmful chemicals (at least the ones I know of) in it. As for brushing your hair in the shower, I wouldn't do that, but combing your hair while the conditioner is still in it in the shower is a good idea (at least in my opinion).

Medvssa
November 27th, 2005, 01:47 PM
Like QuiteContrary said, throw away your brush! Brush + curls is a no-no-no! (I also had a clueless straight haired mother)

Don't comb your hair when it is dry. In fact fingercombing is a good idea. You can fingercom your hair very carefully when you are in the shower and you have lots of conditioner on your hair, then rinse and leave it dry as is, you'll get nice curls. And if you use a comb, use a wide-toothed and smooth one with big spaces between the teeth. You can also use a detangler and comb it when it is damp. If your hair gets better you may eventually use no products for combing, when my curls are moisturized I get no tangles at all.

Did you ever have great hair when coming out of a bath in the sea? This is how I figured out that it likes to air dry while soaking wet, although it may not be an option in winter (certainly not in Canada)

If in the morning you have a bit of mess and frizzies, spray it with water or another recipe you find here and fingercomb/give it shape with your fingers, but better not to comb it.

If your ends are too dry and fried, cutting off an inch or two may help, and from then on taking better care of your hair with the many tips and recipes you'll find here.
Also, washing your hair as less as possible can help, as shampoo dries very much. You may also want to try CO (conditioner only) you'll find information about it in this forum.

You need LOTS of moisturising! Have a look at the recipes section for deep moisture treatments, leave ins for frizzies, and conditioner recipes. Maybe you can also have a look at the curly people journals here.
When I didn't have a better idea of what I was doing, it helped me lots to just use a very moisturising rinse off conditioner (for dry or curly hair) as a leave in. It really worked better than any styling product out there.
Your hair might love oils and butters, just try out things and find what your hair likes the most :D

Arianwen
November 27th, 2005, 01:50 PM
Ditch the brush for sure, and maybe wash less often. The more I wash the drier and fuzzy/frizzy mine gets. My DH has super curly / coarse hair and *never* brushes it, and only washes every few days. He detangles gently in the shower with a wooden or shower comb, when his hair is full of conditioner.

Medvssa
November 27th, 2005, 01:51 PM
where do I find a bore bristle brush. and do I use it like normal, I know dumb question!
so it is ok if I brush in the shower?
So dumb me decieded to try and hydrate my hair this afternoon with all kinds of organic oils and such, guess who now can't get it out!!! rrrrrrrrr. I just can't win!!!

I wouldn't recommend any kind of brush for curly hair, it may be wonderful for straigh hair, but not curly. Use a comb instead.

It is ok to comb (not brush) in the shower, but not under the water, just while you have the conditioner on. Hair is more fragile when it is wet, but I also found out that combing curly hair when it is dry causes even more breakage.

You can use a clarifying shampoo to get oils out, I guess, I never had a problem getting oils out of my hair, perhaps you used too much? what kind of oil did you use?

ETA: Once your hair gets soft enough that you can easily part it with your fingers without combing, a loose braid at night will certainly help with the tangles and frizz in the canopy. I heard wonders about using a satin pillowcase (I'm gonna sure get one myself) one of those could certainly help.

Oh, and don't try to control your hair, let the curls flow :)

daughter of eve
November 27th, 2005, 02:49 PM
I'm curly, but not as curly as you. Ditch the brush!! I've just learned this recently. Brushing hair like yours will probably cause tons of breakage, and ruin the curl. You might consider showering in the morning and gently detangling with your fingers while you have conditioner in your hair. If you can't wash in the morning then I would recommend wetting it down somehow to re-activate the curl.

I would avoid bending at the waist and flipping your hair over to wash or dry it. I find doing that makes mine a tangled mess.

When you're finished washing, don't put your hair in a "turban". Just gently blot out the water with a towel (this helps you avoid frizz). Then, gently finger comb, add your leave-in styling stuff if you use it, maybe "define" some of the curls with your fingers and then DON'T TOUCH YOUR HAIR while it's drying or you'll make frizz.

I've started using Suave Coconut and really like the "slip". It detangles much better for me than the Alberto Balsam products. I've found Suave at Zellers, Shoppers Drug Mart and Wal Mart (I'm Canadian too).

I've spent all my life being frustrated with my hair so I sympathise with you! I'm finally learning how to deal with it. Good luck!

HermioneHair
November 27th, 2005, 03:01 PM
Yay! Someone else likes Suave Coconut! I love that stuff, and so does my curly-haired cousin! It makes hair so soft and shiny and easy to detangle!

Flaxen
November 27th, 2005, 03:04 PM
Run, don't walk, to your nearest bookstore, or speed your mouse over to Amazon, and buy a copy of Curly Girl (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0761123008/102-1370635-6448112?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance). Seriously, like, right now, and you will be very, very pleased.:smile:

Kenya
November 27th, 2005, 03:34 PM
Thanks Flaxen for the book suggestion, it looks good! I'm going to town in the next few days so I'll definatley get it! I never thought of books. Our library is small and doesn't carry cool things like this.
I try to wash my hair every 5 days, it is such a pain to wash though. I am going to get a big shower comb and only comb with conditioner in my hair. It's funny I used to do this when I had short hair, why didn't I remember??? I will try and find the suave cocnut too, thank you ladies for the great suggestions! I can't believe how nice you all are!!! I think this is the best site I have ever been too!!!

ok. so what is BBB? it's most likely staring me right in the face right?
So I am going to throw out my brush (sigh).
It is very hard to finger comb my hair, but maybe as it gets easier I can do it.

I have had 1 inch just cut off. but I still have really frizzy dry ends. It has always been that way. But I'm not sure if it is because I didn't know what I was doing or because that is the way my hair is. Maybe I should just cut it all off and start again (sigh) my husband would cry, really!!!

how do you only condition your hair? I couldn't imagine not washing it. but what do I know! I'm willing to try anything at this point!!!

The oils I used were from a moisturizing body butter. Ingerdients are; Coconut oil, coco butter, vitamin e, almond oil, calendula, apricot kernel oil and lavender (in random order). I got most of it out, but the one side is really greesey looking.

ok, so I am going to try and be patient and see what happens, how long should it take approx to start seeing some results?

thanks for everything ladies, your great!!!! Kenya

daughter of eve
November 27th, 2005, 03:47 PM
how do you only condition your hair? I couldn't imagine not washing it. but what do I know! I'm willing to try anything at this point!!!


A BBB is a boar bristle brush. Great for straight hair...

I started the conditioner only wash a few weeks ago and have had wonderful results. My hair is softer, less frizzy, and doesn't need to be washed as often (I used to shampoo every day). All you do is put conditioner all over the scalp and length of your hair until it's really saturated, then leave it on for a while. At least ten minutes, or longer if you like. Then rinse well. (I believe the Curly Girl book uses a slightly different method for conditioner only) The conditioner has mild surfactants that clean your hair, only more gently. But in order for it to work, you do have to leave it in longer. I've even heavily oiled my hair for a few hours before washing, and the conditioner only wash cleaned it right out and left me with soft, moisturised hair.


But, I know there are people who have tried conditioner only and it didn't work for them, or they had to try several different conditioners until they found "the one". Everyone's hair is different, so you'll be lucky if new things work for you on the first try. I find I have to try a new thing out for a least a few weeks to really know if it is or isn't working for me.

I think I'll be reading that Curly Girl book too!!

CurlyKitten
November 27th, 2005, 03:56 PM
I definitely agree that you should ditch the brush and only finger comb or use a smooth wide toothed comb in the shower when your hair is wet and covered in conditioner, and try conditioner washing. These two things alone have totally transformed my hair 8) I am using Elucence Moisture Balancing conditioner everyday and it's probably my favorite condtioner ever.

And I am biracial too :smile:

HermioneHair
November 27th, 2005, 04:04 PM
Yes, the curly girl book is very good. I steal it from my aunt every now and then, because it has a very nice section for wavy hair.

Speedbump
November 27th, 2005, 06:16 PM
Kenya, if you are interested in CO washing, I have a copy of the Curly Girl book that I can send you. I also have a copy of the Ouidad book, which I found to be less useful, but still interesting. If you are interested, you can e-mail me through the site by clicking on my username and then clicking on "send email to Speedbump" in the dropdown menu.

Now, to the sympathy: My parents both had stick straight hair, and didn't have a clue what to do with my curls, so I totally hear you. I am not biracial, but I have a lot of the same challenges because my scalp and hair are both so dry naturally.

Now, on to the advice:

1) Stop brushing, and fingercomb. Some folks find that combing while their hair is dry is better (for me it is because I have fine hair) but some folks find that they can only comb when their hair is full of conditioner in the shower. Whatever works for you, ya know? But brushing is terribly, terribly damaging for curly hair, and the curlier it is the worse it is. My hair improved remarkably soon after I threw my brushes away.

2) Try braiding at night. It truly helps with knots and tangles, and it was instrumental for me. It's also a good excuse to fingercomb thoroughly, if you can do it while it's dry.

3) Damp braiding can be very beneficial. That just means you go to bed with wet braids. I have found that braiding first and wetting the braids afterward is better for my hair, because it's so much weaker when it's wet. Since you have coarse hair, it might be better for you to wet down first.

4) Try butters and oils. I bet your hair would love shea butter! :D If you are interested in trying some virgin coconut oil, I have such a huge jar of it and it will take me years to get through it. I'll be happy to send you some samples of several oils and butters for you to try. The beauty of oils for me is that they give me great slip on my fingers when I detangle. I usually do this the night before I wash, so it doesn't matter if my curl formation looks crappy from the oil.

5) Cut down on how often you wash, if you can. If you can't because your scalp itches too much or something, then trying CO or greatly diluted shampoo would probably help you.

6) Try some search and destroy missions. That is where you take a good, sharp pair of scissors used for nothing but trimming your hair, and you go through it and cut off just the split ends and the little knots that so many curlies get. Getting rid of "pixie" (one-hair) knots especially can greatly improve how your hair behaves. The pixies tend to make hairs stick together a lot more and cause tangles. Also, cutting them out is best because if you simply unknot the hair, it will have a major weak point where the knot was and it will never be in satisfactory condition at that point, and is likely to knot again or split.

7) Have patience. If you have a lot of damage, then it will possibly take up to a year to see full-length improvement. I know that my hair just recently became more like my "dream hair" in terms of health, and I celebrated my one-year anniversary here in October.

I hope this helps, and please do e-mail me if you are interested in the books and/or the oil-butter samples. :flower:

Speedy

FroandBeyond
November 27th, 2005, 07:12 PM
Also, using oils alone may not work for you. I know...they usually make my hair hard and crispy. Try mixing oil with your conditioner and let it sit on the hair for a while and then rinse it out. I have given that idea to people with various textures and it has worked.

Kenya
November 27th, 2005, 07:34 PM
WOW!!! I love curlykitten and speedbumps hair. Just so you know my hair looks like curlykittens when I use 5 products to tame it. The last time it looked that good was on my Wedding day 3 1/2 years ago. I can't believe how nice the shine is! and no frizzies! I am soooo dreaming right now. but it is time to start looking after this mop better. I am so glad I found this site!!! how do I post a pic? I will post 1 or 2 so you can see what I'm dealing with.


thanks again Kenya

Flaxen
November 27th, 2005, 09:56 PM
how do I post a pic? I will post 1 or 2 so you can see what I'm dealing with.
Here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/faq.php?faq=vb_read_and_post#faq_post_photos) are the instructions for posting pictures. You will need 26 posts before you can make a signature, but you may put a picture in the body of a post right away.:smile:

peacecat3
November 27th, 2005, 11:21 PM
Kenya:

You’ve already received some excellent advice, so I will try not belabor them. I second the CO suggestion—if you try it, please look for the “cheaper,” thinner conditioners, whose main ingredient, after water, is cetyl alcohol. That’s the cleansing fatty acid that is the mild surfecant which will clean. If you CO, beware of using products with difficult-to-cleanse ingredients like –cones and –quats, as CO has trouble removing those things. Also, though my hair is a different type than yours, please remember that not all hair likes oils. Mine is indifferent to antagonistic towards oils.

And, since I haven’t seen this mentioned yet, you could try just putting it up. If you know you’re doing everything right, but your hair refuses to progress rapidly, if at all, you might try simply getting it up and out of the way. This has two main benefits as I see it: 1) Out of sight, out of mind. It won’t get in your way, so maybe it won’t bother you or even cross your mind; and 2) It prevents mechanical damage from hair rubbing across clothing, and being tangled in wind or other hazards. Also, especially if you do damp updos, your hair can retain that moisture, and absorb it as slowly as it needs.

wyldcurlz
November 27th, 2005, 11:32 PM
Hi Kenya & Welcome!!

I'm going to second not brushing your hair. The only time I ever brush is to when I've got dampened hair & loads of conditioner on the hairline & I'm trying to slick back my hair into a ponytail. I definitely agree with everyone that you should only comb when wet & loaded up with conditioner.

This forum is a great resource - I've learned so much here! Look at the other thick curly girls here (like myself, Athena's Owl, Midnite Curls, Miya & Curly Kitten - they all have journals & have posted lots of helpful information!)

I also have 3b/3c M/Ciii hair so I feel your pain! ;) What's working for me is using loads of conditioner. Because I usually wear my hair in a damp bun (I've sworn off of blow-drying it straight for the last few months & hopefully thru the new year), I put regular conditioner on barely damp hair & slick it back. But, I also conditioner wash & then deep condition (i think this is abbreviated as CWC). Deep conditioning is of the essence for thick curls like yours! My ends get tangled, so I finger comb gently, then use a wide toothed comb going from the ends up to the root. I do this when my hair is wet with conditioner OR if I have spray detangler or my homemade oil mist.

Another person with our hair type taught me to fill a mister with distilled water and some oils (I like jojoba, watermelon seed, shea, kukui nut & grapeseed oil) and I mist the ends to keep them moist.

Honestly I've learned that its all about moisture, moisture, MOISTURE!!!! That and being gentle with your hair. Never rush it and never ever be rough with it! It'll repay you in leaps and bounds. Athena's Owl told me to start keeping a hair journal here & its been a great personal resource. I can look back and see what I did and what worked and what didn't!

Other great resources are the Curly Girl book - they've already referred that to you. And, although this forum is my mainstay, there is another forum that you can get some great info that caters specifically to 3a/b/c & 4a/b hair. I'll try to find the link.

Kenya
November 28th, 2005, 09:16 AM
I really appriciate your guidance! I loose about 6-8 inches with the curls depending on the day. I guess I was brusing because at least I got rid of some of those curls! As a little girl I hated them so much. I've never had a good school picture. I refuse to show them to anyone!!! I tired to straighten my hair with a relaxer when I was 18 and my then waist length hair was badly burned and it fell off. I was left with 3 inches. So I got extentions, but the brading on top of damaged hair made it worse. so I shaved my head and started over. My hair grows really fast, about 1 inch per month. I don't know why. so I have cut a lot off playing with styles. I have a lot of firzzies right now. The body butter that I used on my hair came out of one side but not the other, so I am not even going to leave the house today! I am going to try and CO later as I'm sure my hair would like that. I'll make sure I have a conditioner that will work for that first. I finally have to stop fighting with these blasted curls that have a mind of their own! They can't be reasoned with!! they are evil ;) !!! I have a favorite picture of my hair when it was straighter that I am going to try and post. It's not really a good one as it is from the front but it is what I would love my hair to look like forever!!!!

Kenya