Ok – this is a controversial subject. My son is still NOT sleeping through the night. Now if you are going to suggest the ‘cry it out method’, then move along. We are not doing that. We have on a few occasions left him in the crib just due to not being able to get to him right away, and he’s so tired he’s fallen over in the crib and whacked his noggin on the headboard.

As the story goes..

He is 11 months old. He does not like to nap (he’ll go down for about 20-30 minutes) unless you lay down with him, then he’ll knock off for 1-2 hrs. We co sleep with him just because I’m so exhausted that getting up 4 or 5 times a night to pluck him out of the crib to feed him is too much for me. It’s easier if he’s in the bed. We have tried to wean him off nursing, and only offer him water, but he wakes up more when we’ve done this so that didn’t work. The thing is, is that he has a huge appetite. In no small terms, he will literally eat between 5 – 6 cups of food a day. He’ll eat ½ cup of cereal, 1 cup of yogurt and 1 cup of fruit for breakfast. He has a snack. Lunch, he can eat 1 grilled cheese, 1 cup of fruit. Another snack. For supper, he’ll have whatever we’re eating plus his fruit. He’s not putting on weight (he’s 21 pounds now) and my sister (who’s and RN) believes that he has a really demanding metabolism because he eats so much, but has no fat on him. So it would seem that he is still hungry through the night. We’re very torn on what to do. We’re going to take him to the doctor and see if it’s something medical but I wanted to try and see what other parents have experienced here first. I’d like to see if anyone has had something similar that they went through and if so how the resolved it.

Thumper - I want to reassure you that there is nothing "wrong" with a baby not sleeping through the night at 11 months. I know a lot of moms, including myself, couldn't go through the trauma of letting a child cry it out. Yes, some kids start sleeping on their own at an early age, but a lot don't. DH and I decided fairly early on to do what worked for us, which was letting our children sleep with us. There's quite a bit of literature out there about co-sleeping and attachment parenting.

Anyway, I don't know if this well help at all, but my children are 3 and 5 (almost 6) and both sleep through the night by themselves. They are both weaned, potty-trained, and fairly independent as far as kids that age can be. I get frequent comments about how well behaved and well adjusted they are, both from other parents and from their teachers.

I have always been a researcher and a worrier, but after I decided to let go of all of the research and expectations that others have about raising a child, I found that it was better for me to do what kept me sane and able to deal with my own children.

Wow, where does all that food go? :bigeyes: My 10-month old daughter, who is about 20 lbs., is exclusively breastfed and eats NO food at all. How much are you nursing him during the day? I'm asking because maybe he isn't nursing as much during the day and that is causing him to eat more at night. However, it sounds like he may just truly be hungry.

Babies learn to sleep through the night at different ages. If I were you, I would just sleep with him so you will both be rested. If you are determined to get him to sleep alone at this age, there is a pretty good book called "The No-Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley that is non-CIO. I can't say that I agree with everything in it, but you might find something helpful.

If you feel you want to night wean, there is several good web pages about it:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/T022900.asp
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/weaning/weaning-night.html
http://www.drjaygordon.com/ap/sleep.htm (not suggested for under 1 year)

Just be warned, however. You may find that he will wake just as often even if he is night weaned, particularly if he is teething.

My first daughter didn't sleep through the night until she cut her first set of molars at 18 months. I sleep with my 10-month-old and will until she is ready to sleep alone.

Big :grouphug: for you!

First hugs to you. You've got my sympathy; I've been there. Even as a tiny baby, my dd's motto was "Sleep is for the weak!" As a nearly 3 year old, she still usually wakes once at night. But then again, so do many adults. It's all in how much the waking is interferring--waking itself is pretty normal for people of all ages.

As you said, he may simply need to nurse at night due to his metabolism. I used this method (http://www.drjaygordon.com/ap/sleep.htm) to night wean my co-sleeping DD, but she was almost two when I did it. It may simply be too soon. I'm hearing from your post that you do in fact feel that he has a nutritional need during the night, and it's great that you are respecting that. I think you are feeling pressure that he "ought" to be different by now, more independent. But the sleep through the night expection is very cultural, and not biological. As a human infant, he is perfectly normal in having these needs around the clock and your responses to him (keeping him in your bed, nursing him at night, feeding him as much as it takes until he seems full) are your mama-instincts at work. Take a look at what you feel "ought" to be going on, and why you feel that way.

For my own part, I found that there were things I was OK with, but felt cultural pressure to change (co-sleeping, extended nursing--especially in public) and there were things I just didn't like (nursing at night after a certain age). I knew I needed less nursing as I was starting to feel resentful of the entire nursing relationship, and also because my daughter seemed to be needing less of it but didn't know how to go about reducing. I saw thought we needed a rule and I could think of two: 1) we only nurse at home, or 2) we only nurse during the day. The first would have elimated much of my discomfort with the response I was getting from the outside world, when I nursed a kid old enough to walk and talk. The second bought me sleep. I wasn't about to do both, so I had to pick. I picked the second. I didn't want my choices to be governed by what others needed to feel comfortable.

Which is not to say you will follow my choices. I just wanted to present an example of the thought process. Look at why you feel the need for change. If you or your son are the ones needing a change, look at what changes you could make and what the benefit of each would be. Make only one change at a time. If, on the other hand, you and your son would be perfectly happy with things as they are, if only the neighbors/in-laws/grandparents/RN-sister didn't know what happened in your house at night, then maybe the solution is to find a way to deflect the curiousity of others and simply keep your usual routine.

Wow, where does all that food go? :bigeyes: My 10-month old daughter, who is about 20 lbs., is exclusively breastfed and eats NO food at all. How much are you nursing him during the day? I'm asking because maybe he isn't nursing as much during the day and that is causing him to eat more at night. However, it sounds like he may just truly be hungry.

I had to start solids with him at 5 months. Not really by choice but by circumstance. It was around that age that he was becoming more demanding with being nursed. He would nurse about every 1/2 hour and always cry after...his tummy was not satisfied with my milk. I stopped nursing him during the day about 1 week before I returned to work at the beginning of Nov. He only nurses at night.

I'm getting alot of negative comments from my friends/co-workers (mind you, these people had their babies sleeping through the night by the time they were 4 months old). So people are insisting that there is something wrong with him. I'm getting a little sick and tired of it. Anyways, DS continues to share the bed with us and we continue to be woken up. On a good night, he will sleep right through till about 3:30a.m. and then he will continue to wake about every hour till it's time to get up. Mind you, he doesn't go to sleep till about 10pm :silly:
Thanks for the hugs :flowers:

[QUOTE=CurlyCare]If you or your son are the ones needing a change, look at what changes you could make and what the benefit of each would be. [QUOTE]

The only change we would like to see at this point is that he somehow manages to aquire a more restful sleep. He has (as I've been told) a very persistent personality. He decides what he wants, and that's just the way it's going to be come hell or high water. Hopefully that attitude will ware off before his teens!

I'm getting alot of negative comments from my friends/co-workers (mind you, these people had their babies sleeping through the night by the time they were 4 months old). So people are insisting that there is something wrong with him. I'm getting a little sick and tired of it.

It's a different mode of parenting. In the end, the tiredness was easier for me to deal with than the thought of letting my babies cry for hours on end. I've heard accounts of people sleep-training their kids and just couldn't do it myself.

You might want to look at some of the attachment parenting boards. They are a good resource for those who can't find like minded parents in their areas.

My daughter is 3 and still doesn't sleep all night. She gets lonely. She's old enough to express this, now but it's something she's always done. She wakes up and wants someone to hang out with for an hour or so and then she drifts back to sleep.

It's just her.

The only advise I can offer is move over and tell your husband you'll see him in a couple of years. And when you shop for a big kid bed, make sure it fits mommy, too (actually, I like my daughter's bed because the rails mean she can't kick me off the side).

Hi Thumper [WAKE UP!!!!!]

Been there, done that. Does he not go throught the night because he's hungry or because he's lonely? Don't be fooled by the fact that he will nurse, is that actually why he's waking up?

Our youngest won't go through the night on his own yet (he's 3), either one of us joins him or if he's feeling particularly energetic he'll clamber in with us. This is just because he likes to have somebody warm to cuddle, but he will put away a cup of milk if offered one ;-)

Even when he was a baby he would not go down however full he was, so he used to spend all night in with us. The 'routine' was feed from around 7.30 to 10.30/snooze on dad's lap till ~1am/get plugged on to mum who then goes back to sleep/let go when full! He was much happier when he got onto solids (bacon sandwich anybody? I could murder a slice of toast!) but he still doesnt' like being in bed on his own. I mean let's face it do we?

For what its worth, and I'm not a pediatrician so it's an opinion based on what we found with ours. If he's happy, healthy, gaining weight and the doctors aren't worried about him, then he's probably OK. We used to let both our our kids climb in with us (not to mention the cat) and both of them have turned out fine, so we got round the waking just because they were lonely that way. We found that while we could do 'controlled crying' with number one and he'd learn to go off to sleep, number two will not do it - so we decided what the hell and all got some sleep!

I stopped nursing him during the day about 1 week before I returned to work at the beginning of Nov. He only nurses at night.

A lot of babies tend to do what is "reverse cycling" (nurse none during the day and multiple times at night) when their mothers go back to work. Sometimes it is hunger (if they refuse bottles during the day) and sometimes it is a type of separation anxiety and they need to feel close to their moms after the long separation during the day.

Did this start around when you went back to work or he was already doing it?

Don't let anyone convince you something is "wrong" with him because he is not sleeping through the night. He is perfectly normal :)

[QUOTE=andiS]Hi Thumper [WAKE UP!!!!!]

Been there, done that. Does he not go throught the night because he's hungry or because he's lonely?
[QUOTE]

He's not lonely because he's already in the bed with us (we're in a king size SmallVoice). We just wish he could sleep. We had thought that he would feel the comfort of both of us there (he'll sleep sideways, with feet on dad on hands on mum..just to be sure we're not going anywhere). He's a part of our lives all the time. We carry him around in the harness that you where on your back or front. He's always with us so it's not even an issue for us to have him sleep with us. Anyways, we're just hoping that he'll learn to realize that we are there and he can sleep or fall back asleep on his own.

Did this start around when you went back to work or he was already doing it?

No, he was always waking during the night.

Hi Thumper [WAKE UP!!!!!]

Been there, done that. Does he not go throught the night because he's hungry or because he's lonely?


He's not lonely because he's already in the bed with us (we're in a king size SmallVoice). We just wish he could sleep. We had thought that he would feel the comfort of both of us there (he'll sleep sideways, with feet on dad on hands on mum..just to be sure we're not going anywhere). He's a part of our lives all the time. We carry him around in the harness that you where on your back or front. He's always with us so it's not even an issue for us to have him sleep with us. Anyways, we're just hoping that he'll learn to realize that we are there and he can sleep or fall back asleep on his own.

Cool, that's nice (especially if Dad gets the feet, aka Dad gets kicked in the ear, been there). In that case you might just find he's HUNGRY, good idea to take him to the doc if he's eating everything you can give him and he's not putting on weight though. He's 21lbs now, how heavy was he when he was born, and how has his weight gain mapped against age; did he put it on when small and now is slowing down, or what? One thing I did notice from your example food, and I'm not a dietician either, how much 'stodge' is he getting? Just wondering if he was not 'feeling full' as it was being processed too fast? We're wholemeal everything in our house so we did wholemeal bread and the like.

[/QUOTE]One thing I did notice from your example food, and I'm not a dietician either, how much 'stodge' is he getting? Just wondering if he was not 'feeling full' as it was being processed too fast? We're wholemeal everything in our house so we did wholemeal bread and the like.[/QUOTE]

He eats everything...e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g-...we make sure that he gets alot of protein in the evenings to try to help keep him full for bedtime.

One thing I did notice from your example food, and I'm not a dietician either, how much 'stodge' is he getting? Just wondering if he was not 'feeling full' as it was being processed too fast? We're wholemeal everything in our house so we did wholemeal bread and the like.[/QUOTE]

He eats everything...e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g-...we make sure that he gets alot of protein in the evenings to try to help keep him full for bedtime.[/QUOTE]

I think we tried that too, essentially our youngest is just a gannet. We didn't really have an issue with weight gain, well not after he got onto solids anyway. Do you only breast feed or do you bottle feed too? We found we had to do both with ours due to the HUGE appetites, but we were lucky in that they'd both be happy to take milk from any source; I know some babies won't nurse once they hit the bottle. If it's any consolation he's built like a tank now.....

Do you only breast feed or do you bottle feed too? We found we had to do both with ours due to the HUGE appetites, but we were lucky in that they'd both be happy to take milk from any source; I know some babies won't nurse once they hit the bottle. If it's any consolation he's built like a tank now.....

He takes both bottle and breast...although latley he doesn't seem to like the forumla anymore? He'd rather have juice than formula.

He takes both bottle and breast...although latley he doesn't seem to like the forumla anymore? He'd rather have juice than formula.

Oh that's good, our youngest (3) went off milk quite young (only wants it at bedtime or in the night) our eldest (6) loves milk and will drink it whenever offered! Both will drink blackcurrant from, though our youngest also likes apple juice, tea and is quite partial to red wine if you turn your back on the glass!

Anyway, I don't know if this well help at all, but my children are 3 and 5 (almost 6) and both sleep through the night by themselves. They are both weaned, potty-trained, and fairly independent as far as kids that age can be. I get frequent comments about how well behaved and well adjusted they are, both from other parents and from their teachers.


At what age did your children start sleeping through the night?

This is an actual email I received from one family member that found out DS is still waking through the night:

"Why don't you or DH or anyone else you know wake up in the middle of the night to eat? Do you think that DS really doesn't get enough to eat during the day and that he is starving and absolutely has to have something in his belly? It's actually cruel to encourage bad eating habits....he will be as big as a house one day with rotten teeth unless of course you brush his teeth right after he eats, but I am guessing that you just want him to go back to sleep after he eats because you are tired and he probably is too. Letting a child cry it out is not cruel, that is some shit that some granola eating new age woman is feeding you....those are the people with out of control children who have no sense of discipline or structure....all because the parents don't want to hurt their child's feelings.....I'd like to be a fly on the wall when DS takes his first temper tantrum in public.....make sure you give him a big kiss and give in...it will let him know that you do love him no matter what. No really, if you are enjoying those night feedings and know you will always enjoy getting up in the middle of the night for at least the first 5-10 years, you are doing the right thing...."

Oooh, that's one nasty email you got Thumper. Just do what works for you and your family, and everything will turn out fine. I have friends who did co-sleeping, nursed until their kids were three, and were up at night nursing as well, and their children are just as beautiful and sweet and healthy as other families I know who preferred things to be more "structured". I think every family is different. And, I think whoever sent you that email should mind their own business!

Oooh, that's one nasty email you got Thumper. Just do what works for you and your family, and everything will turn out fine. I have friends who did co-sleeping, nursed until their kids were three, and were up at night nursing as well, and their children are just as beautiful and sweet and healthy as other families I know who preferred things to be more "structured". I think every family is different. And, I think whoever sent you that email should mind their own business!

Oh I don't care about the email all that much - she got defensive to me because when we were on the subject and she started hammering about how 'this is your first child, you don't know any better' I shot back with the fact that I thought it was cruel that people let their children cry it out. Her opinions are bias, her first DD was colic, in a very very bad way...and it took alot out of her and looking back, she thinks if she did things differently with her that she could have avoided some of the problems that come with colic. It's like "hhheeeeeeeeeeelllllllllooooooooooo" you can not control your babies.

can you throw that email in your trash box for me?

Why don't you or DH or anyone else you know wake up in the middle of the night to eat? Do you think that DS really doesn't get enough to eat during the day and that he is starving and absolutely has to have something in his belly?

Ummmm, I do get up in the middle of the night to eat if I am hungry. I have an extremely fast metabolism and I am not as big as a house (5'8" and 140 lbs.) My dad has done this ever since I can remember and he is rail thin.

Is your friend so ignorant that she does not know that children's stomachs are smaller than an adults? Children simply don't have the capacity that ours does. And kids burn A LOT more calories than us adults too.

I don't know what being hungry has to do with discipline. :rolleyes:

We semi-co-slept until our son was about 4.5. He went to sleep in his own bed but always joined us eventually during the night. Makes sense, a child is never alone during the day why would he want to be all by himself in a separate room at night when it is dark especially if the parents share a bed :)
Always struck me as odd that people wonder why children don't like that arrangement. I stopped nursing at 7 mo because I had surgery and couldn't keep my milk going through the hospital stay so after that I gave him a water bottle for the night. He breathes through his mouth while sleeping and still takes a sports bottle with water to bed because he tends to wake up with a dry mouth. If your son eats a large enough dinner to last him through the night maybe a bottle of water that he can handle himself will do the trick of getting him out of night nursings if that is what you are hoping for and he is mostly nursing as a comfortable habit, out of thirst or due to a dry mouth.

Ummmm, I do get up in the middle of the night to eat if I am hungry. I have an extremely fast metabolism and I am not as big as a house (5'8" and 140 lbs.) My dad has done this ever since I can remember and he is rail thin.

Is your friend so ignorant that she does not know that children's stomachs are smaller than an adults? Children simply don't have the capacity that ours does. And kids burn A LOT more calories than us adults too.

I don't know what being hungry has to do with discipline. :rolleyes:

I often eat in the night (I used to HAVE to get up and eat quite substantial quantities at 2AM sometimes) - everybody is different and has different bodily requirements regardless if they're 8 months or 80 years.

Perhaps I'm stating the obvious here, but I wanted to encourage you that every baby is different. My firstborn wanted to nurse constantly through the night (like every half hour!) and I was just exhausted from lack of sleep and recovering from a third degree tear from his birth. When he was about four months old a friend of mine showed me a method of correcting his internal clock (I guess that's the best way I could describe it) so he slept less during the day and more at night. It was a gentle approach that worked for him, and after about a week he always slept through the night. He was built like a sumo wrestler by the way. He wore twelve month size clothes when he was four months old. One of our friends nicknamed him "Michelin Man" because he was just all fat rolls!

My second child slept too much at night from the time he was born and I actually had to set my alarm clock and wake him up to be fed for the first few months! LOL! I didn't want to risk losing my milk supply, and he was on the skinny side.

My last baby was different again. She had a nightime nursing schedule that was manageable (about every three to four hours) for me and her crib was in our room so I just took her in bed with me when she wanted to nurse at night.

Sometimes people who have "easy" babies tend to be judgemental of other people's parenting. That's been my experience anyway.

Perhaps I'm stating the obvious here, but I wanted to encourage you that every baby is different. My firstborn wanted to nurse constantly through the night (like every half hour!)

Our second was such an, enthusiastic, feeder that my wife was just deploying a strategy for nightime feeds of lying on the bed with him, plugging him on and going back to sleep on the grounds that he'd let go and drop off when he was full! OK so you won't find this in the books.........

There seems to be a bit of a mix of both hunger and comfort. On the comfort side, I can offer to nurse him for like 2 minutes, and he won't eat, he just wants to be there, so I gently pull off and rub his back until he dozes off. On the hunger side, there is no way come hell or high water that he will allow me to pull away from him. He is - in essence - a very emotional boy. He is not afraid to show his emotions and uses them quite a bit to make his point. It's a little odd that for the first 4 months of his life, he slept like a log and never made a peep..he's backwards! Don't get me wrong, he is always a very happy go lucky baby, it's just when he wants' something, that's it.

Oh well, I know in due time he'll be out partying with his friends and trying to avoid being seen in public with me :wail: so I'll take it!

Our second was such an, enthusiastic, feeder that my wife was just deploying a strategy for nightime feeds of lying on the bed with him, plugging him on and going back to sleep on the grounds that he'd let go and drop off when he was full! OK so you won't find this in the books.........

You gave me a good laugh. I can remember many nights like that! I'd wake up an hour or two later with a warm little baby fast asleep in my bed.

... wife was just deploying a strategy for nightime feeds of lying on the bed with him, plugging him on and going back to sleep on the grounds that he'd let go and drop off when he was full! OK so you won't find this in the books.........

That actually sounds familiar :)

Actually, AndiS, realizing I could nurse while lying down (and, by extension, sleeping) was one of those moments in my life when the heavens opened and the angels sang. It was such a lovely moment.

Thumper, babies are individuals and what works for one won't always work for the other. My oldest slept through the night when he was a week old, I would actually wake him up to feed him. He also took good naps. My second baby slept through the night at about 3 months, but was terrified of her crib so we ended up letting her sleep in a pack & play in our room. The older she got the less she napped -- she wasn't napping at all by the time she was your son's age. My third baby, who is 26 mos. STILL wakes up during the night! We get her to sleep and put her in her bed, then at some point she gets up and gets in the bed with us. She takes maybe a 30-45 min. catnap each day.

All 3 of mine were "skinny" babies, my second only weighed 17 lbs. on her first birthday. My 2 year old only weighs 24 lbs. Some babies aren't meant to be fat. My kids have always been very energetic and had great appetites. I began feeding each one of them cereal at 6 weeks old.

The best advice I can give you is to IGNORE all of the negative, unwanted advice that certain people give. You do what's right for you & your baby. From what you've said it sounds to me like your little boy has a lot of extra energy (like all 3 of mine), this makes him extra hungry b/c he's burning everything off. A lot of people worry when their child won't eat and the doctor will say "children know when they are hungry, they won't starve". In your son's case I would feed him every time he's hungry. He's not overweight. If you haven't tried already give him some warm oatmeal/cereal, something that "sticks to the ribs" as they say right before bedtime. Those carbs are known to knock you out.

My 2 yr old gets especially wild when she's extra tired. She fights sleep bad! I have to pick her up and carry her around, sing to her and distract her. Then her eyelids start to get heavy and I lay down with her in her bed. Kids fight sleep because they're afraid they'll miss out on something!

Good luck and hang in there! This is only a phase, it'll be something else before you know it.LOL:flower:

Neither one of my children slept through the night until they were 2+. We started our son in bed with us, but he didn't sleep well at all, and neither did we. Out of exhaustion, we then put him into the cradle to sleep, and he went from waking up 5-6 times a night to only 2-3. I think every time somebody moved in the bed, it would wake him up. Then he'd want to nurse. When my daughter came along, we started putting her to bed in the cradle right away, and she generally only woke up 2-3 times a night.

I compensated by taking naps during the day while baby napped. With the nap, getting up 2-3 times during the night wasn't such a hardship. I still like to grab a nap during the day if I can, and the children are grown and out on their own.

Anyway, this too shall pass.

Actually, AndiS, realizing I could nurse while lying down (and, by extension, sleeping) was one of those moments in my life when the heavens opened and the angels sang. It was such a lovely moment.

TRUE! And this has enabled me to get some sleep at nights. Every little bit sure helps!