How do you recognize what perimenopausal symptoms are normal and which are not?

My mother has been acting very strangely lately and won't go to the doctor. She is 50 and has noticed over the last couple years symptoms that i consider "normal": mood swings, irregular cycles, etc.


But among her questionable symptoms are:

*extremely violent behavior, last week she started to choke my dad while he was driving and they almost wrecked

*hallucinations, the most recent of which was the computer talking to her

*extreme paranoia that we are all plotting against her to commit her to an institution

*making lists of things she wants people to have when she dies

*complete inability to function mentally at all -- follow the simplest of conversations, assemble meals when she used to be a master in the kitchen, balance her checkbook or pack a suitcase for a trip when she would normally be able to do these things in her sleep, etc.

*shopping for strange things that she neither wants or needs, when in the past you would have to drag her kicking and screaming



We all want her to see the doctor and a therapist, but she refuses. The last time she was there, the gyn. gave her an antidepressant to help her over the short-term, but that didn't help that much. It just made her giddy and out of touch. He did not want her on HRT and instead had her take Estroven. Now she's out of the antidepressant and over the past 3 weeks has descended back into the behaviors I described above.

Is this normal MW behavior and do you have any advice for me or my other family members?

:(

I know nothing about MW but to me that sounds like a neurological disorder....actually Alzheimer/demens comes to mind.

Get her to a doctor. Sounds like her doc did diagnose her as menopausal though. She needs her meds if the moodiness and irratic behavior has returned. How was she while on the meds? It's good that the gyn didn't load her up on anti-depressants... he probably wants to see her now and access whether the meds worked or not, and if something stronger is needed.

I wouldn't run to a therapist just yet, one of the first things a good therapist will want is a physical exam and blood tests anyway. Seeing a regular doc, or even her gyn should be easier to cajole her into doing... :)

Here's a url that has some common symptoms of meno: http://www.minniepauz.com/35symptoms.html

This is not even close to normal menopausal symptoms. Even if by some chance part of her problem is hormonal it being this severe indicates that something needs to be done.

IMO a medical diagnosis is in order then perhaps therapy. This sounds very serious. I hope you find a way to make her get checked out...g

Even if by some chance part of her problem is hormonal it being this severe indicates that something needs to be done.

IMO a medical diagnosis is in order then perhaps therapy. This sounds very serious. I hope you find a way to make her get checked out...g

Oh, Karen!!! How scarey for everyone involved! Including her! I'm sure she is confused and scared!!!

I agree with some of the others, it sounds like some for of dimetia (sp) like Alzheimer or something (but I am not a doctor so I can't say)!

I hope you can get her to a doctor.

Oh, yeah, I also agree, the doctor who prescribed the antidepressants most likely wants to see her back to re-evaluate her meds.

I'm not sure about THIS, but I would think you could call the doctor before the appointment and express some of your concerns with him/her. Make sure the doctor knows that you are her daughter.

(((((((((((((((((((Karen))))))))))))))))))))))))) I hope the doctor can find what is wrong and do something to help her.

Karen, I'm so sorry your mother is experiencing this. I absolutely agree with Gabi -- these are NOT normal menopausal symptoms, not by a long shot. It sounds as though there is something much more serious going on with your mother. She needs a THOROUGH physical AND psychiatric examination. This condition, untreated, sounds like it could be extremely dangerous to your mother and your family. It could be caused by something as simple as a vitamin B12 deficiency (severe deficiency can present as dementia) or as complex as schizophrenia or Alzheimers. There's no way to know without comprehensive testing, and the sooner she gets tested, the sooner she can begin treatment. This is urgent, Karen. Best of luck to you! Please let us know the outcome. {{{{HUGS}}}}

thank you all for your support

we have been begging her to go to the doctor but she refuses. we will keep trying. the stress on the family is so unbelievable.

my fiance lost his job yesterday. i don't know how things can get any worse right now.

((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))) I'm sorry you and your family are going through all this! And your fiance losing his job too, I pray things will start getting better for you all.

I was thinking if this were my mom, I probably get mean with her (all of us) and hall her but to the E.R. then she would get admitted for a work up and Phyc (sp) evaluation. It could be something simple. She doesn't realize she isn't herself does she? She is probably afraid. Hang in there and let us know...in case I am faced with this someday. Love to you all! Lori V.

Karen,

1) (((((hugs))))) for you and yours right now, this is a very stressful time...

2) I would recommend getting her to a physician as soon as you are able. I recognise that this is a struggle, but she needs to be seen by a doctor. Do you have a medical professional to whom you could talk? At least so you can have some support and reassurance, possibly some advice. You'll have to forgive me too, as I'm not familiar at all with how the US healthcare system works, being in the UK.

3) If your Mum is 50, this is unlikely to be Alzheimers. Some forms of dementia DO present earlier in life than others, but Alzheimers isn't generally one of them. I'm not a doctor, just a psych. grad with a special interest in the psychology of ageing. If your family doesn't have a history of early onset Alzheimers it's much much much MUCH MUCH less likely!! I'm sure you are aware that it might be other things : deficiencies and so on.

Please be assured of support and love in this place. I desparately want this post to be encouraging to you....................

Bees

But among her questionable symptoms are:

*extremely violent behavior, last week she started to choke my dad while he was driving and they almost wrecked

*hallucinations, the most recent of which was the computer talking to her

*extreme paranoia that we are all plotting against her to commit her to an institution

*shopping for strange things that she neither wants or needs, when in the past you would have to drag her kicking and screaming


These are clasic schitzophrenia symptoms. This disorder is caused by a chemical imbalence, and can be helped with medication. Get her to a physician immeaditly. If she will not go, contact your local state mental health department for advice.

--Cheryl

my sister has all of the symptoms you described and more. and she is only 16. right now we have her in a long term facility to help her get better.
please get your mom to a dr. it could be something as simple as an imbalance or it could be very serious.
i will keep you in my prayers. ((((((((HUG)))))))))

The symptoms your mom are dealing with definitely sound like mental illness. Some people need to be on medication much longer than three weeks to see possible results, others need more medication, some react adversely to particular medications, others need medications in combination and some are just uncontrollable.

I hate to bring it to this point-but the next time she goes into a rage that puts others into danger the appropriate response is to dial 911 or to take her immediately to an ER which will probably get her both into the legal system and possibly into an involuntary commitment scenario. You could try talking to her about it and let her know that this will be the family's response the next time one of these incidents happens and see if she will shoulder the responsiblility of getting back on medication, but don't do it alone.

Just a horribly difficult and lonely position for you to be in, I hope you see a happy and quick resolution. There are an awful lot of us who have struggled with mental illness in our families and our own lives. It is far more common a problem than is commonly thought.

Oh Karen, I don't know what to say. I hope things improve for you real soon. In the meantime, <<<<hugs>>>>

But among her questionable symptoms are:

*extremely violent behavior, last week she started to choke my dad while he was driving and they almost wrecked

*hallucinations, the most recent of which was the computer talking to her

*extreme paranoia that we are all plotting against her to commit her to an institution

*shopping for strange things that she neither wants or needs, when in the past you would have to drag her kicking and screaming


These are clasic schitzophrenia symptoms. This disorder is caused by a chemical imbalence, and can be helped with medication. Get her to a physician immeaditly. If she will not go, contact your local state mental health department for advice.

--Cheryl
I was about to post this. You really need to contact your local state mental health department for advice (to quote Cheryl). Please.

Karen, I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, not to mention your fiance losing his job. :( My heart goes out to you. We're here for support - please remember that.

::HUGS::

TI hate to bring it to this point-but the next time she goes into a rage that puts others into danger the appropriate response is to dial 911 or to take her immediately to an ER which will probably get her both into the legal system and possibly into an involuntary commitment scenario. You could try talking to her about it and let her know that this will be the family's response the next time one of these incidents happens and see if she will shoulder the responsiblility of getting back on medication, but don't do it alone.



I agree with Terri. When your mother (or ANY one) presents a physical danger to those around, then it is time to intervene! Seeing a doctor is no longer voluntary, in my book!

Talk to your family about their support/disagreement with this option. Everyone needs to be on the same "page" when/if that time comes!

Also, let your mother know this will be the next step!

More hugs for you Karen!!! and More prayers, especially with your boyfriend losing his job ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Karen))))))))))))) ))))))))))))))

and as I always say, when things seem to be "too much" . . . this too shall pass . . . because it WILL eventually!!! (((((((((((((hugs again)))))))))))))))

Alzheimer's was the first thing I thought of unless she has a history of mental illness. Also, if she's not getting enough sleep that could cause some of those symtoms. My mother is notorious for taking on too much work and not sleeping enough. She was afraid she was developing Alzheimer's, went to the doctor FINALLY and he told her it was lack of sleep.

I hope you can talk your mother into going to see a professional. If I were you, I would just make an appointment and find some excuse to get her there and get her seen!

Hope she's okay.

((((((hugs)))))))) for you Karen, first of all. I'm so sorry to hear about your fiance's job :(

I really wish I knew of a way to help you get your mom in to see the doctor, but I'm at a loss there. However I agree with everyone in that it is imperative that she see her doctor or visit the ER asap. I'm going to out myself here, but I have bipolar disorder (manic-depression) and the symptoms you listed sound a lot like mania. Even a person who normally functions well socially and occupationally can show symptoms of mania when put on an anti-depressant. My doctors and I thought I only had transient episodes of depression until one day Paxil drove me over the edge into mania and I was properly diagnosed and put on the proper medications. Luckily, Bipolar disorder is often thought of as the most easily treated psychiatric disorders as it usually responds dramatically to the right medications. The only people who know I have a psychiatric disorder are the people I tell because with meds I'm frightfully, boringly normal. The meds nowadays are that good.

All of the symptoms you mentioned can be symptoms of mania. Here's a list I found at this site (http://www.bipolarworld.net/Diagnosis/Diagnosis/mania.html) :
"Manic Behavior you might Observe

Generally an episode seems to begin overnight with a sudden and pleasant switch of mood to one of well-being, lightening, happiness and positive energy. At this stage (known as mild mania or hypomania) the individual is able to function quite well, and this mood may persist at this level for a long period of time without becoming more severe. In other cases it intensifies day by day into true mania. This is the state I will discuss here.

Out of control of emotions and behavior….very distressed

Normally amiable people may become increasingly angry, impulsive, emotional or irritable

Intense euphoria that nothing can disturb, but if their plans are foiled they may become irritable or uncontrollably furious

Some may become hostile

A few manics may become paranoid or violent and assault others verbally or physically

Very rapid speech, incessant and usually in a loud voice

Answer questions at great length and continue talking when others speak

Speech may be riddled with jokes, puns, or irrelevant witticisms

Acting in theatrical roles and ways

Offer money or advice to passing strangers

Unable to sleep or sit still…often going for days with 2 or3 hrs sleep and not feeling tired

Socially frenetic…throwing parties, going to bars

Throw aside normal inhibitions and become sexually hyperactive or promiscuous

Due to impaired judgement very poor decision making skills. Overspending, over commitment, quitting jobs, etc.

In persons with extreme mania you may see some of the following:

Thinking completely illogical

Speech uncontrollable and sometimes incoherent

Unable to distinguish between "real" and "not real"

Delusions, paranoia, hallucinations

Catatonia possible"

I'm sorry for the length, but I thought this might give you something to check out and possibly mention to your mother's doctor. If this is what's going on with your mom, prompt medical attention is important as it will probably get worse before it gets better, especially if she continues to take the anti-depressant. With the right meds it can be stopped within days. Hospitalization might not even be necessary if she is willing to co-operate, but medical attention is necessary pronto. The longer it goes on the more irrational and angry she may become.

I'm very sorry that you have so much on your plate right now :(

Queenie

Bless you QueenHarpy ...g

Just an update for you all and a bit of clarification....

She was on the antidepressant for 2 months and has been off for the past 3 weeks. The gyn. supposedly gave her a full checkup at the beginning of the year and ran some blood tests and the diagnosis was normal perimenopausal symptoms. That's why I decided to ask the "MWs" :)
I didn't think that sounded normal to me, but she probably isn't being accurate in what she tells the gyn. her symptoms are.

My mother is currently in Texas as part of a family trip. Her brother, brother's son, her mother, and herself all drove to Texas to clean out their other brother's affairs and mementos (he passed away last year). They were supposed to come back this coming Sunday, but instead will be back tomorrow because of my mother's erratic behavior on her trip. My father has been in constant contact with her and I have only heard the condensed version of the story. But I guess that she started pushing around and shouting at her brother. Anyway...

Since she was in Texas, we -- my dad, sister, brother, Smoochie, and I -- had a family meeting about what to do. My dad was supposed to talk to her one more time to beg her to go back to the doctor and if she wouldn't agree, that us kids would talk to her. Well, he has been begging her all week via telephone and she refuses. She also refused to come back from Texas when my dad offered to take a plane down to pick her up so the whole group wouldn't have to come back early and spoil their vacations. So my dad is going to try to talk to her in person when she gets back. If that doesn't work, I am going out on Sunday to talk to her. Dad seems to think I am the one to talk to her (rather than my sister, the psychologist). But I'll give it a try and keep you all posted.

Bad things always happen in threes so I've been waiting for the third.... Last night at midnight, Smooch and I realized the furnace wasn't working. House was 62 degrees. So a furnace repair person is coming today. I don't need this bill and headache :(

I want to thank you all for your trains of thoughts on this issue and your well wishes. It really means a lot to me, more than you probably realize.

I think if in any way the whole family could be there, it would be great. She definitely has symptoms of mental disorder, caused by who knows what?????????? Could be something simple, reaction to some med she's on, issues she has suppressed for years coming out, some sort of chemical imbalance, any number of things. Definitely NOT normal mid life symptoms. I forget to buy catfood, but not how to pack a suitcase!

I hope things get better for your family, soon. Bless your little heart, keep your chin up, and I will be hoping things are good for you all again soon.

another update

she has continued to decline over the past few days, attacking my dad again, even worse than before.

we did a family intervention last night. it was one of the most horrible experiences of my life. i won't go into the gory details, but she is truly paranoid and not herself at all. it was the worst i had seen her behave.

she agreed to go to the doctor this week, but i remain skeptical if she will actually follow through. my dad and she agreed to spend the day on the telephone attempting to get her in to see a new doctor.

YIKES! Good luck, Karen! You are doing the best thing possible for your mother -- just bear that in mind when the going gets rough(er). Please keep us posted on what happens. {{{HUGS}}}

hang in there Karen-glad you got the support of your family. Hope she steps up to the plate on her own and you don't have to do anymore intervention of a forcible nature.